No Mans Land
HOST
All right, so let's do a craniotomy. Let's drill deep into the skull of the process behind conviction and why, paradoxically, ironically, when you have the deepest core belief rattling in your bones, you are most likely and most susceptible to not
CALLER 1
following through with it. Because here's what happens.
HOST
And, and trading and investing is a
CALLER 1
great example because there's many horror stories of a guy who knows exactly what's going to happen.
HOST
He's ready to execute on a big trade, big proposition, big investment.
CALLER 1
No, it's just divinates the future, but then starts shopping around subconsciously trying to find a hundred reasons for why not to pull the trigger. And it's this thing, it's this metaphysical thing in life where when you hold the strongest conviction and beliefs on a certain topic, you will build. You will build and create a hundred doubters, a hundred. You'll start shopping the idea, you'll let other talk you out of it, tell you're insane, tell you it's crazy, tell you to switch sides, go the opposite direction.
You, you will create this. You will create this. And what I think it is, I feel like I don't think it is what I know it is. It's this herd instinct.
HOST
It's this herd instinct.
CALLER 1
It is so challenging to actually be at the tip of the spear and go against the entire world on a proposition because it's against nature, you understand? There's this herd instinct where when people know something to be true, that's when they fucking hit the research reins the heaviest. That's when you start fucking talking to your buddies about it and they're in
HOST
your ear and they're like, nah, nah,
CALLER 1
nah, don't do that. And they knock you off it. How many of you, how many of you know for a fact that something was going to happen and you queued up all your dough and you were ready to fire missiles on a proposition that you knew was going to pay off and you let some other motherfucker tell you what to do and knock you off the proposition. How many times does that happen?
We've all experienced it. It's one of the most brutal fucking experiences to sit through. I have never. I've always regretted taking somebody else's advice when it comes to executing for high stakes.
Always. Even if I, even if they were right, I, I have a samurai mentality. I'd rather die on my own sword every day of the week, then get knocked off a position because you listen to some other, you know, everyone says the market is PvP, that's got to be the biggest myth I've ever heard. The market is you versus you.
The market is the hardest thing on planet Earth to beat is the market. It's the hardest thing on earth to beat because it preys on all these primal forces in you. It preys on all of them. It tests your character, test your weakness, test your strengths.
It's going to expose your vulnerabilities. You know what I mean? You're going to, you're going to find your Achilles heel very quickly, very quickly. When you test yourself in any kind of market, and I'm not talking just trading any, any volatile market that you're playing in, it's you versus you.
Nobody else has any fucking dictation but you. And we see this over and over and over again. People get clapped with their convictions because they, they want to peg. Ultimately, people want to be able to peg a loss on somebody else's influence.
That's why when it's you versus the world, when you're doing anything that's avant garde or at the cutting edge, it's extremely, extremely challenging to stay in that position. Because it's no man's land. You're in a barren desert, you're in a barren oasis, and there's nobody there to save you. Because conviction, holding true to a belief and then acting on it is one of the loneliest places you can be in life.
It's extremely lonely when everyone's in your ear telling you it's not possible and you cannot do what you know for a fact you can. So everybody ends up folding and buckling at the knees because it's like, if I lose, I can just peg it that I, that I got suckered this time. Someone else talked me out of it.
HOST
And I'm telling you over and over
CALLER 1
and over again, that samurai mentality of dying on your own sword, that shit's always going to get you through. That shit's always going to get you through. Nobody else can pilot my machine.
HOST
You know what I mean?
CALLER 1
That's not how life works. And it's amazing how when you have the most conviction that you'll ever have in your entire life, like I just said, magically, a hundred experts come out of the woodwork, a hundred experts on why you can't make happen what you
HOST
think is going to happen.
CALLER 1
They just start fucking teeming. They start coming out of fucking wormholes and portals. And it's because subconsciously you're looking for it. It hurts to be right.
It hurts so bad to be right. I Don't think, understand the responsibility of winning and the pressure that it actually takes to win and succeed with your conviction. It's lonely, it's gruesome, it's brutal. It's brutal.
And that's why very few make the sojourn through it and come out the other side. You know, speaking of markets and life in general, everything in life is about a run. Life is all about a series and sequences of runs. You go on a run, sometimes you have a bad run, sometimes you have a good run.
But one thing that I have seen over and over and over again as a truism on any run that shocked the world or any run that put someone in a higher position than they were previously in, is that you don't need very much at all to create that first little whirlwind. Every trader's dream, every business owner's dream, is to go and start the fucking run with millions of dollars in capital and backing and tons of fucking support. Let me tell you something. The biggest runs in fucking world history, including Facebook, including Tesla, including all of it.
It was a degenerate mentality. It was a degen fucking series of bets that hit, and they all parlayed into success. The biggest runs that you will ever find start from practically nothing, and then someone basically just surfs the tsunami all the way to the top. Gambling's a great example.
You know, I've started runs with five mil. They just don't seem to go as well than when I start with way less. I could start with 90 less and spin it up and whip it up into seven figures easily. But when you start with the big sums, for some reason, there's a psychological force that preys on you in the human experience where you, you, you just.
You. You get shook, you get shaken up, you feel like the stakes are too high, so you start to doubt yourself. The fears start to creep in. You start making stupid moves out of fear.
But when you start with nothing, it's incredible. You're like, you're. You're running through the Aztec ruins as they're crumbling. And as long as you just keep stepping, you can just keep stepping higher and higher across the stones.
It's insane. Biggest runs of my life started with like 10K. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Just slamming, punching with 10K.
Seven figures in a day, seven figures in 48 hours. Anytime. I started with the massive pots, the huge backing, the army behind me didn't go so hot. And almost any motherfucker will tell you this is true.
Who's played the Game for real. It don't take very much. And you can. This.
This cross translates flawlessly. This translates to dating. It translates to any fucking market with. That's volatile.
HOST
You know what I mean?
CALLER 1
All you motherfuckers think you need to stack up on winning traits, be sculpted like a Greek statue, have all this fucking. All these. All these winning attributes loaded in the bank before you can go out and take a swing. It's not how it works.
You can start taking the swing right now with practically nothing and go on a run. And as long as you can capture that whirlwind and that fury and ride that momentum, you can go on some of the most glorious runs and rides of your entire life. Like I just said, starting with crumbs. Because you punch different.
You understand? You punch different. When you're down, you punch different. There's.
You got nothing to lose. There's no fear. So the subconscious doesn't block you. It doesn't barricade you in.
It doesn't garrison you in a way where when you. When you have. When you're starting out any kind of run in life with, like, a massive amount of attributes stacked up on one side of the equation, you start to just kind of sabotage it. And so all the glory runs in your life all started from practically zero.
You didn't need much resource at all. All you needed was a little bit of grit and tenacity and resilience and guile, and it would. It would be enough to get you through. It's all about surfing the momentum.
The tiniest, tiniest little mechanisms and levers just have to kind of spin. That's why I said it's scientifically impossible not to make it as a man. You take the tiniest action, the grandfather clock starts ticking. Bang, bang, you're on the saddle, and all of a sudden the seas are parting like you're Moses, over and over again.
This is how. This is how it works. This is real magic. This is how the impossible becomes possible.
It's just taking that first little step without the anxiety of wondering if you're good enough. You're always going to get the best divine benevolence and gifts. When you have nothing. When you have nothing.
And this is why recently I've pondered on this. I've pondered on this. And this hit me. I do think.
I think God is female. God, whatever force in the universe, is fundamentally female in nature. And the reason why I believe that is because, look, there's a very weird function in life where when you are blessed with miracle after miracle after miracle, and, and the universe will give it to you. It'll give you miracle after miracle after miracle.
And you disrespect those miracles. Disrespect, Spit at those miracles in the face. They just keep coming. They just keep coming.
If I could tell you how many examples of people I know that are so godamn blessed, they get miracles coming out of the blue every day when it looks like they're dead.
HOST
Boom.
CALLER 1
Another miracle hits, uplifts them. They had zero regard or appreciation for the miracle. And the miracles just keep coming. Like the worse you treat the worst you treat the, the, the miracles, the more they come back in space.
HOST
You know what I mean?
CALLER 1
The more God loves you, the more disrespectful to the miracles you are, the more God loves you. Just like a woman. Just like a woman.
HOST
It's a female mechanism. It's inexplicable. But it's true.
CALLER 1
We all know people who spit in
HOST
the face of the miracles. They've been given over and over again, and they just. And they just keep coming. And it's very strange.
CALLER 1
The, the who stop and really, really suck it all in and are constantly in that place of just really enjoying the gratitude those get, like miracles, like once every two years. It's because fortune favors the bold. Fortune favors the bold. God loves a who's willing to clash antlers and create sparks.
You know what I'm saying? I don't make the rules, I'm just observing them. Let's take a question. Oh, I was going to talk about vitality too.
About how vitality. A lot of people don't. A lot of people have confused the two and conflated the two terms. Here's the deal.
Vitality is the bigger umbrella, you understand? You can, you can stuff and shove a lot more elements of life under the umbrella of vitality than you can health. Health is the weaker force, for sure. And vitality, ironically, is obviously a spiritual thing, right?
It's coming from within the spirit. That's why health, to a large degree, a lot of things in the health game have been misappropriated because just having a strong, robust, healthy shell doesn't necessarily mean that you have vitality. Doesn't necessarily mean that you have vitality whatsoever. You can have a motherfucker with a nuked shell, right?
Like a John McAfee type Kerouac, hunter S. Thompson. And these just seem to be embalmed. Embalmed and entombed in some kind of immortality because they just don't fold.
And Succumb to the ordinary pressures of life. I think that actually should be the classic definition of vitality. Vitality is about max exposure to life, right? It's a very, very offensive, offensive way
HOST
to play the game. If you go all in on vitality
CALLER 1
and chase experiences, if you chase experiences, and a lot of the experiences that don't actually equate to material success, funnily enough, are what make you a man.
HOST
A lot of the things that you've been exposed to,
CALLER 1
you know, the horrors, the euphorias, all those, all those elements of life, those things actually do kind of crystallize that aura that you're looking for.
HOST
That's how it works. And so, you know, I find it
CALLER 1
to be very cringe beyond belief. Looking at just stocking up on just pure health and just looking for supplements and the next molecule that's going to change your life. It's not how it works, buddy. Nature is way too crafty and clever.
Nature's too shifty. You cannot hack your way around
HOST
vitality.
CALLER 1
You can load up on all the fucking health you want and not do a goddamn fucking thing. You can slice papayas on whatever island you want to travel to. You can fucking walk barefoot. You can do the 40 man march in Hawaii for all I care.
You know what I mean? You can fucking hike the fucking volcanoes and drink mineral rich water at the top of Kona. You're still not moving the needle like a. Who's exposing himself to the entire elements of life.
The good, the bad, the ugly. Men do not have a vested interest in protecting their bubble. Do you understand? That's a new age.
That's a new age proposition that's come down the pike in like the last 20 years.
HOST
Is you.
CALLER 1
You hear grown men talking about how they got to protect their energy. I don't hang around negative people because I want to protect my energy. The fuck are you talking about? Man is designed to deal with all emotions.
Man is designed to deal with the
HOST
totality of the human experience.
CALLER 1
You're hardwired to deal with negativity, gore, the most gruesome elements of life. And if you get exposure to that entire, to the entire pantheon of that, you seem to outlive and outrun and outpace everybody else.
HOST
You know what I mean?
CALLER 1
And these are not tangible biomarkers. They're not tangible.
HOST
There's no way to read it.
CALLER 1
There's no measurement. It's just. It's not quantifiable. And so that's why people shy away from it.
That's why People shy away from it because the clock does tick differently for the who have all the vital signs. What did I tell you? The best vital sign for a man is it's anger.
HOST
It's anger.
CALLER 1
A man who can no longer stir up the passions of rage is not a healthy man whatsoever. And I've talked at length and I do think it's hilarious that in the DSM this has been wrongfully accused as being a disorder. The bipolar lifestyle for man, right? Living these very, very short manic pain cycles within 24 hour periods where you feel the lowest of lows of despair, but then an hour later you feel the highest of highs of euphoria.
Motherfuckers inaccurately call that bipolar. Let me tell you something. That kind of ebb and flow, that kind of flux is the number one
HOST
sign of vitality and health.
CALLER 1
Number one sign. A motherfucker who can go from one end of the emotional spectrum and fucking jam, turn the jets on and go all the way. Polar end. That is a vital, vital.
Talking about conversion of energy, right? It's the who are stagnant, happy, go lucky all the time, have mono, emotions, have trouble swapping, have trouble toggling. Those aren't healthy. Those aren't healthy whatsoever.
You know what I mean? Man is the tempest. Everyone wrongfully says women are the tempest. Women are the storm.
Man should be the, the rock in the storm.
HOST
Nah, it's the opposite. It's the opposite. Man is the storm.
CALLER 1
Man is the storm. And if you got a good quality woman at home, she's the rock. She will come in her femininity and soothe you and calm you the
HOST
down when you're, when your emotions are raging.
CALLER 1
That's how it's always worked.
HOST
From medieval times to the Donna, man. That is how it's always worked. These types of men have always dominated every arena that they've stepped into. It's a historical fact and it's on record.
CALLER 1
So offense, offense wins the game, right? You don't have to worry about defense and stockpiling defense.
HOST
If you can just rain down too
CALLER 1
many points on your opponent every day, all you got to do is just rain points. If you can just torch threes in
HOST
the NBA, you don't need a lick of defense. Just drop 150 every night. That should be the goal. Drop 150, empty the clip.
I got to roll a sig and take a break. I'm going to actually bring someone up to entertain us with a question. Just got a fresh delivery. Yo, juan.
What's up? Stage fright Foreign. What's up, Nate?
CALLER 3
Yo, what's up, Bruce? I actually have a. I actually have a take on what you're talking about, about conviction. I, I think when you have everything stacked up, all the cards for you, I actually think that irrational conviction is the start of all innovation.
Like, I really think that being able to say no to all of the exterior pressures is the, the thing that really propels someone forward. You know, William Blake, he talked about this idea of like, the fox and the lion and the fox.
HOST
I see it's the optimizer.
CALLER 3
And the lion is kind of the one who just goes with the flow and really follows intuition. And I think it goes back to this quote that he had. He was like, if the lion was advised by the fox, he would be cunning. Improvement makes straight roads.
But the crooked roads without improvement are the roads of genius. So I think, like, energy itself is going to say no to everything around you. I mean, all of the external pressure that you're getting, I think is just going to turn the innovator away. I mean, I think metabolic energy is the idea.
Like you were talking about flow. Like, I really think that's the, the main thing when you have vitality, because it's really not about the health. Like, health is something to burn through, and that's the, the metabolism idea. Like, I think people see having all the resources and, you know, stacking money as something beneficial if you're really firing the shots.
But if you're not flowing, that's the thing, like you said, stagnant. So, yeah, that's all I want to say.
HOST
But, yeah, that's a good one. Wasn't there an offshoot of that fox quote too? Something to the effect of foxes have to fend for themselves, but God provides for the lion?
CALLER 3
Yeah, exactly that. He said, if the fox provides for himself, God provides the lion.
HOST
Yeah, that's hard as. And that's actually another truism. See, the thing is too, is, like, when you look at these, these predator animals, these apex predators, which obviously humans are, you know, you get, it's. It's really becomes very clear that even issues like sleep.
Sleep are problems of flow. Anyone who comes to me with a sleep problem, which I've had a lot of dudes in my DMs ask me how they can sleep better, I'm like, brother, you don't understand.
CALLER 1
If you have sleep problems, it's because
HOST
you're living like prey. There is some element of your life that you are powerless over, whether it's you living with a girlfriend. That you can't stand. Whether it's you having a boss that you hate, There is some element of your life where you are living your
CALLER 1
life in a way where you are powerless and you have learned helplessness. And that's why that adage, sleeping with one eye open.
HOST
Predators don't got to do that.
CALLER 1
You know what I'm saying? Predators don't. Predators fall asleep like motherfucking babies. Humans are no different.
If you're living your life in the power position and you are the one calling all the shots, you sleep like a goddamn baby. I once said that the greatest men of all time, One of the greatest indicators you can use to measure the quality of a man is how fast he falls asleep at night. That.
HOST
That is. That is an irrefutable method.
CALLER 1
Great quality. Men fall asleep within minutes of putting their head down on the pillow.
HOST
And people who live like prey and
CALLER 1
have that spiritual torment of not living the life that they should be living have a very, very difficult time falling asleep.
CALLER 3
Yeah, absolutely. I. I think that it's. It's funny because guys will say that, you know, worrying about health is.
Is looked at as like. Like, I think you sort of talked about this before, how health is, of course, the base, but you always have to burn through it. You know, that's. I think, the thing that's completely missed.
Same thing with money, same thing with resources. Same thing with living in a, like, high lifestyle. All of it is just a tool. It's not really the end.
That's what I think people really mistake. Like, I think that this whole thing that you need to make. Make it to a point where you can die without regret and you can have good memories. I think that's a complete nonsensical thinking.
I think building a system that can outrun you is the thing. I think it's. It's a metabolic thing. It's really the idea of flow.
It's the thing that outlives you. It's not about the things that are directly accomplished, I think, but.
HOST
Exactly, bro. So here's the thing, right? There's a. One of the most interesting billionaires out there is the dude who created Red Bull.
This motherfucker is fascinating guy. But anyway, the guy who created Red Bull basically did whatever the he wanted. He took his ethos, he took his entire life's philosophy, and he put it in a wrapper, and he wrapped it and packaged it in this thing called Red Bull. And he did things on his fucking terms the entire step of the way.
And basically what he did is he built an apparatus. I want to say he was paying himself out like 800 million a year and doing whatever the fuck he wanted to do. The guy was a fucking beast. But my point is, is that the only billionaire is, is the feat of all feats in life.
And the reason why it is because the only way to become a billionaire is, is by not chasing the money. It's by following your nature with reckless abandonment. It is impossible to become a billionaire without relentlessly and ceaselessly following your nature. Millionaire is completely different.
Millionaire is very crowded. Millionaire is clogged. I don't give a fuck what anybody says. Millionaire is easy.
Millionaire is super easy.
CALLER 1
All you got to do is sell your soul.
HOST
You can play somebody else's game, you can sacrifice your soul, you can make a Faustian bargain, and you'll become a millionaire pretty quickly. Pretty quickly.
CALLER 1
And that's just how it works.
HOST
And so millionaire, the millionaire path is you can just get that going against the grain of your nature until kingdom come. But billionaire, first of all, there's no billionaire out there who chased the money or ever fucking cared about being a billionaire. It was, it's like, I always talk about attacking your goals laterally. They're.
The force of nature inside them was so powerful that it had to be unleashed on humanity. And they basically went in and just disrupted entire ecosystems because they couldn't contain the fire that was in them. Boom. Accidentally became a billionaire.
CALLER 1
That's literally how it works.
HOST
And so it's, it's fascinating to me when we talk about the energy thing that those guys, like, we, we talk about Zuckerberg's Fizz and all and all that stuff, but, I mean, these guys are, are, are prime examples of who just leaned all the way into their nature. And we see what the end result of that was. The Red Bull shit's fascinating. I mean, look, all of life, like you said, is about building systems and apparatuses to outrun the deficits that you have.
That's literally the entire game of being a man. If you can, if you can build a system that can protect whatever deficits you have, you can play the game at whatever stakes that you want. Whatever stakes that you want. So it's like, if not trying to become a billionaire is a massive cope,
CALLER 1
it's just a cope.
HOST
Like, obviously none of us are going to get there, but that's not the fucking point. It's about who you become in the process of trying to get there.
CALLER 3
I think there's this whole paradox that, you know, listening to the market or Kind of going based off of the best practices. You know, sort of this whole thing of copywriting. You know, you got to have your newsletter, you got to have all this. That is, you know, the standard norm.
No innovator, no one that's actually creating anything gives a about what's popular. They create it. It's the whole thing. It's like another thing.
William Blake, he said, I must create a system or be enslaved by another men's. And that's the exact thing with the. The millionaire. I mean, they can, they can have all the money, they can have all this, but they're ultimately following something that is behind.
I mean, it's. It's always somebody ahead that's feeding the best practice. That's the thing about the lion. The line doesn't give a.
About what's going on. They're the one that's generating, you know, that's, that's the whole idea of like flow. I said I'd think, but.
HOST
Exactly. They're making people scatter. And that's the beauty of playing offense. Offense is a statement that basically says, join my team or get the out of the way because you're going to get steamrolled.
Know what I mean? When you play offense, you make everybody else play defense. You know what I'm saying? Like one, one is think about from an energy perspective, in a team that's offensive oriented in a sport, their game plan, when they have huddles and meetings, they're talking about how they can impose their will on the other players.
But a defensive minded team, they got to spend their entire week strategizing how to react to somebody else's plan. That ain't a good way to go through life, you know? And they say defense wins championships. That's another old adage.
CALLER 1
I think that's absolute nonsense.
HOST
Like I just said, if you can rain down fire and brimstone on your opponents, you don't got to worry about defense. And so, you know, from a video game perspective, we talk like, if you want to equate it into those terms, just you got to put all your character points into offense and strength because we. Offense becomes your defense. Right.
If you can just pulverize things in your path, you don't really have to defend it.
CALLER 3
Exactly. Offense is the defense. Yeah. Appreciate it.
HOST
Offense becomes a defense. Yeah. Appreciate you, bro. Indefatigable.
Yo, Can't hear a word, buddy. John Marchetti.
CALLER 1
Hey, what's up, bro? Can you hear me?
HOST
Yep.
CALLER 1
Yo, you're pretty.
HOST
You're pretty muffled though.
CALLER 4
All right.
CALLER 1
How about now?
CALLER 7
Can you hear me? Perfect. So I just recently took like a gut wrenching shot. Like real skin in the game.
Like, literally, like ego, everything on the line. Like, literally money, everything on the line. Literally a gut wrenching shot. And, you know, I.
It was a big swing, not gonna lie, but, you know, it didn't go my way. So right now I'm at a point where I'm thinking about, like, caving in and like, thinking of going, like, the ultra normie path. But I'm trying to figure out if I should, like, keep going in, keep going in, or if I should just like, lean into becoming like a hyper normie.
HOST
Yeah, I mean, that's the whole thing, right? Is that every man at some point should take that shot because then you'll really find out what you're made of and you'll know if the normie, like, that's my point is the normie path is always your safety net. It's always that cushion at the bottom of the apartment building where the jumps, like the fire department will catch you at the bottom. You know what I'm saying?
And so those normie pre scripted, prefab paths, they exist for these purposes. It's for the who don't have the resiliency and the grit to continue marching forward 100%. You always have that fallback option. That's why it makes zero sense never to try.
Makes zero sense never to fucking fire the shot. Because, yeah, if worst case scenario, you do just go back into hyper normie land, ain't really a bad place to be. There's plenty of hyper normies out there. They get a bad rap, but they're living life pretty decently.
They got a solid income, they got families, they got kids, they got a beautiful wife. They're doing just fine. But some of us, some of us, that's just not enough. For some of us, it's just never enough.
Some of us always have to be pushing the boundaries of the human experience. You know what I'm saying? I saw a video of Ronnie Coleman. I mean, that dude, talk about a fall from grace.
He's literally crippled. The guy can, cannot walk from the damage he's done to his tissues and tendons. His. The rest of his life has been permanently altered and deteriorated and.
And at what cost, right? Ronnie Coleman was a guy who clearly wanted to see, to test the limits of the human experience. And like most will never understand where that impetus or where that moxie comes from. But to me, that was a spiritual endeavor.
You know, to me, that was just a spiritual endeavor. That's why, like, I don't really bash guys like Brian Johnson. I, I like guys who are willing to push the envelope.
CALLER 1
But above all else, I like champions. I respect a champion.
HOST
I don't give a fuck what game it is. I respect any champion, a CrossFit champion, any fucking champion I have respect for. And Ronnie Coleman was a champion. So it's, it's difficult for me because most people look at that and they're like, dude, what?
Like, what's the cost? Like, the guy can't walk now.
CALLER 1
Yeah.
HOST
But it's like, you know who Ronnie Coleman is and he'll never know who you are,
CALLER 7
Of course. So all in all, like, bottom line, if you want any chance of becoming a champion, you have to literally take gut wrenching shots. Like, it's, it's the only way to get, get there. That's, that's the ultimate bottom line.
CALLER 3
Right?
CALLER 1
It's the ultimate body bottom line.
HOST
But it's, it's, it's. Most people cannot fathom the kind of resolve and conviction that you truly have to have. I mean, if I told you how many times I've been sidelined out of the game because I took stupid shots, it's, it's, it's literally staggering. I mean, I should have been out of the game 20 years ago.
And the only reason why I'm still in it is because I just don't quit.
CALLER 1
There's just zero, zero quit in my heart.
HOST
There's no bitch in my heart. I move forward very quickly and I find the next way forward.
CALLER 1
And that's what I'm talking about is, it's, Everything is about.
HOST
It's so simple. Life is truly so simple, man. It's like you, you push your shoulder to the grindstone at one thing long enough, it's. Reality is going to bend.
It just has to. It has to. It has no other choice. You know what I mean?
Like, you strangle life. You put your hand around its neck and you strangle its jugular. Eventually something's gonna pop. Something's gonna pop, you know, I can't tell you how many times I've sat there with a bet that was towering and everyone's in my ear telling me there's no way this shit's gonna hit.
And it hits. And it's one of the best feelings in life is when you double down and triple down on something you know to be true. And everybody's against you. Everybody's against you.
It's that you against the world mentality. Kobe had it. There's a. There's a lot of prominent examples of who had that me versus the world mentality.
And there's a divine reward system for people who live like this. Because here's the thing, it's almost like a. There's like a divine slot machine that will give various rewards towards people who have the courage to live and lean into their nature. And it's, it's incredible.
It goes back to what I talked about in the beginning, about the, about the miracles. The people who slap the miracles in the face and disrespect them get the most miracles.
CALLER 1
That's how it works and it's how it will always work.
HOST
Because courage is the courage is the thing. Courage is the thing that makes a man. At the end of the day, the end of the day, that's all you have as a man is just your courage. It's just your courage because it goes back to homeostasis.
CALLER 1
The human body doesn't want to build muscle. Human body doesn't want to do very much.
HOST
It just wants to survive. So being able to sustain, living on
CALLER 1
the edge of that and going way beyond the confines of your own biology
HOST
is an impressive feat.
CALLER 1
It's an impressive feat for all intents and purposes. I've been in a fatigued, quasi fatigued state for 20 years.
HOST
The way I've trained, the way I've pushed my body, the way I've pushed my mind. My financial strategies have put me in various straight jacket positions that I had to find a way to cleave my way out of. And so.
CALLER 1
But why do I have more energy than the average 18 year old? I'm 36. I'm running circles around these. You can wake me up at 2am I'll still snatch £300.
I got an infinite Promethean will that just doesn't go away. It's like no matter what I do, it's like that game where you take a mallet and you bash the gophers over the head. Whack a mole. It's like as many times as I've tried to stand in my own way, the way forward has always presented itself.
It's like some you just can't self sabotage no matter what you do. You're just always winning. You're always winning. Even when you're losing, you're winning because there's always a way forward, you know?
HOST
You know what I mean?
CALLER 1
Like, I'm in a ton of debt and one thing I will tell you is it's one of the Worst positions
HOST
to be in his life.
CALLER 1
You cannot be a free man if you're in debt. It's that simple.
HOST
It's that simple.
CALLER 1
It puts you in a spiritual stranglehold. There's no way to. There's no way to. To deal with it except to fucking get it taken care of.
And the spiritual journey of me working my way through debt has been absolutely incredible. I've learned more insights about the human experience just carrying that load on my shoulders than probably any other adventure that I've ever embarked on. And I'm close. Like, once I knock this out of the park, which I'm going to, I just know that alleviation is going to be immense.
HOST
It's going to be immense.
CALLER 1
And I still do to this day. I believe the success of a man is proportionate to how much debt he can handle.
CALLER 7
Appreciate that, bro. That was golden.
HOST
You got it. Yo, you. Yo, yo, yo.
CALLER 6
I wanted to ask you just to tie in with everything you were saying earlier when you were talking about people leaning into their edge, because you guys were talking about lions and foxes. There's obviously a ton of different archetypes. Foxes, weasels, snakes, eagles. I'm wondering, in your opinion, if someone is, like, very defensive.
They're analytical. They like to look at what's going to go wrong. Should they try to fix that or lean into that edge. Say they work in, like, research, and they find all the things that could go wrong and they sell that to, like, sports books or insurance companies.
Or do you think it's better for them to try to resolve that dilemma?
HOST
It's never better to resolve any kind of personal dilemma. That's my whole ethos is like, the more you try to go in and tinker with your nature, the more everything goes haywire. It's like an electrical fence. You're guaranteed to get shocked.
And the thing is, is, like, those types are very instrumental to holding up the entire ecosystem. The world would spin off its axis if.01% of the population was more like me. You know what I mean? So, like, I joined forces with those guys.
I love the analytical nerd.
CALLER 1
Those are my favorite people to work
HOST
with because it's yin and yang. They're the exact opposite of me. They're organized, they plan, they have a script. They're script maxers.
And I love those because they can also see around corners that I can't see and also bring guidance. So I think they're. They're. They're synergistic.
And I think those types need to pair up with the more brawn centered, you know what I'm saying? The guys who are more focused on Braun than brains, I think those guys pair up extremely well. So everything's about forging coalitions, man. Everything's about that detente and having that alliances and with these types because they pair very well together.
That's the, the beauty of the archetypes, right? It's like if you assemble the right team, you can do anything, you know what I'm saying? And that's why I'm on Twitter. I'm on Twitter to develop my army because there's tons of generals and colonels and lieutenants and that I have for guidance.
Guys in my ear, they give me guidance as well, even though I'm trailblazing. And it's just an extremely symbiotic relationship. So no, dude, I think fiddling, fiddling with those types of things where you're naturally geared and oriented towards a certain path, I think that's where everything gets really, really messy in people's lives.
CALLER 6
- I totally agree. Also, if I can add, I really like the point that you mentioned earlier, like how Facebook kind of started as a silly thing or how starting with small bets sort of parlay into bigger things. I take it that you're not someone that has very methodical like grand plans.
It seems more so any success you've had thus far has kind of just been present moment maximizing that opportunity as opposed to like some methodical grand plan, you bring it to fruition.
CALLER 1
Exactly, exactly.
HOST
Dude. That's the craziest thing is like everyone looks at these technical, analytical guys, but everyone who made it to the very end of the game literally degen their way there. There's no other way to do it. You know what I mean?
It's like it's like I said before, how you can yolo your way out of anything. You can't intellectualize your way out of Jack. You can't intellectualize your way out of a paper bag, but you can yolo your way forward through anything.
CALLER 1
And that's what all these guys did.
HOST
And then everyone looks back and they create, they craft some very.
CALLER 1
They craft a methodical story that makes
HOST
it look like it was pre scripted,
CALLER 1
but that's just never how it works. You know, it's like everyone just whipped up a little bit of fury and
HOST
that fury just kind of catapulted them all the way to the very end. And there's. And on runs like there's many times you'll climb and you'll go back to Zero. That happens many times.
But it's like the guys who just gear up and go back for the slaughter, those are the guys that win in the end. And that's why, like, I'm in one of the toughest games to beat in, in human existence. I'm in one of the most difficult games to beat because like I said earlier, like, beating any market is the most challenging thing you can do because it's you versus you. And your character gets tested.
You know, like, many times I've seen an opportunity 24 hours ahead. I'm like, if I just throw the house on this one propos, I'm rich as. But I couldn't sit on my hands and I got silly and I got stupid and I got rambunctious prior to the play, and I burned everything before I could even get there. So I do think sometimes, and in types like myself, this is my weakness.
Sometimes I gotta sit on my phalanges, you know what I mean? I gotta let my fingers go numb and sit on my hands sometimes and wait for the best opportunities to fire,
CALLER 1
because I'm a guy who can just
HOST
shake shit up in the meantime. And then you go through a destruction cycle. So I think it's very, very fucking important to be able, when you're taking those huge shots sometimes, to just learn how to sit on your hands and let the fucking opportunity. Because the strangest thing about the market, right, crypto, doesn't matter what you're betting on, is it has to come to you.
CALLER 1
You can, you can, in any other domain, you can force a sale, you can push product all day, you can,
HOST
you can force reality to be its
CALLER 1
will, but you have no power over the market. You have no power over the market.
HOST
And that's what's, that's, that's why people
CALLER 1
have such struggle being successful in life, is because to get the money to plug into a market where you're going
HOST
to do extremely well and make a lot of money, you got to be alpha as, right?
CALLER 1
You got to be super alpha.
HOST
You got to be super aggressive to build a funnel where you're generating capital.
CALLER 1
But then once you get the capital, the paradox of life is you got to be beta. You got to be beta as to keep it. You got to do the exact opposite of the aggression that created the capital. You got to do the exact opposite when it comes to maintaining and growing it.
And it's very difficult to flip that switch. Very difficult to flip that switch. And so that's why 99% of people go bust, though. That's why crypto is a self correcting mechanism, right?
HOST
Many, many crypto millionaires will be minted this year.
CALLER 1
But that money will find a way
HOST
to go back into the hands that it belongs. These people will find a subconscious way to deliver that money back where it came from.
CALLER 1
That's how every market works.
HOST
It's all self correcting.
CALLER 1
And when I say it's self correcting,
HOST
what I mean is it's a testament to your own character. It's a testament to your own character how you got it, how you keep it, what your mannerisms are, your aura, all that shit factors in to where that money is going to end up going.
CALLER 6
It seems like the, the skill set to acquire is a very different skill set than to amplify it. To get it is a different skill set than it is to keep it. And I mean, I've had that problem myself as well. Just kind of hard to flip that switch.
HOST
It's the hardest thing in life for a man. It's the hardest thing in life because you got to literally switch those gears and go the complete opposite direction.
CALLER 1
Super difficult.
HOST
That's why they say your own worst enemy. That's what they're talking about. It's what they're talking about.
CALLER 1
It's that very thing.
HOST
It's that very thing that makes it successful. That also is the double edged blade that, that stabs you and tears you down. And so I mean, look, there is another method away from that. Like if you're a guy who just really can't figure out how to go beta and how to go numb and how to go dead, once he, once you get a bag like, you can just keep running that full court press offense, you can just keep doing that too.
And that does create a feedback loop of vitality as well, right? Like hunting, hunting for capital, generating products, being on the forefront every day and making money every day is a very offensive strategy. And that keeps people young, that does restore youth. Like, that restores youth.
CALLER 1
It's like these guys that are eating steak and eggs and supplements and they're not making money every day. So they don't have the vitality.
HOST
You know, they got the, the necrosis.
CALLER 1
They look healthy. If you go to a doctor, they'll tell you that your blood panels are elite. They got all that stored in the bank. But again, it's like, do you want to be a healthy nobody or do you want to be a vital somebody?
Choice is up to you.
CALLER 6
Good stuff, man. I appreciate you.
CALLER 1
Yep. Northern Andrew. What's up?
CALLER 2
What's going on, man?
CALLER 1
What's up, brother? Said so I'm a plumber.
CALLER 2
Not often do, you know, the trades come up in these talks. So didn't want to derail the conversation, but I kind of want to get your feedback on. Say you were a plumber, a tradesman, electrician, H VAC guy, whatever, and you still had the same mentality you do now on making money. But this aspect of commerce is nothing like what you guys talk about.
It's, it's relatable, right? I quit my job, worked full time for a company, quit my job, and in three months I pulled in six figures, right? In three months just going balls out, not knowing. There's zero plan, no idea what I was doing other than the fact that I had the skills that I built up over a decade working with my hands, being a plumber.
And so I personally would like to hear a lot more, you know, a lot more talk of like, the trades. It's not really betting, but. Yeah, just your, your opinion on that.
HOST
I mean, I think from a vital perspective, like working with your hands, that kind of craftsmanship. Like, I respect the, out of. My dad was a carpenter. My dad was an incredible carpenter.
And, and deep into old age and was still framing and building houses. And so, you know, I have, I definitely have like a natural affinity towards it. But I mean, it's, it goes back to the whole thing of like the archetypes, right? There's only a certain attraction, there's only like a certain circle, a whirlpool that you're going to run into when you have like that kind of hard cap on your income.
CALLER 1
There's only, there's only.
HOST
And it's not a negative thing. It's just, it's, it's, it's difficult. Like, here's the thing as you. If you don't have a hard cap on your income, there's only very few circles in life where all the money's flowing from.
Okay. Like all the, all the big money is eddying in these very small whirlpools. And so, like, if you live a lifestyle where you're constantly ascending and there's no hard cap, you have to cross and penetrate one of those circles eventually, like, you're gonna pass your mentors, you're gonna pass the people that you look up to when you were younger. I'm kind of in that position now.
There's dudes that I used to look up to when I was younger. I'm way past them now. I'm way past them. And so it's interesting like that you have to cross a certain elite group of people in order to make it big.
And if you don't do that, then you're kind of hamstrung and you're kind of forced to like a certain sector of society. Does that make sense?
CALLER 2
Yeah, because I mean, like I said, it's, it's similar but it's also not right. Like the trades. It's either elite corporatism, you know, massive, massive service companies, you know, the ones you guys hear in Canada. Anyways, it's like Reliance and Enter Care where they're like multi billion dollar companies.
But as a single business owner with trades, like I already surpassed my mentor which was a plumber of 20 years because I have business drive. When he had like this guy's autistic when it comes to plumbing. He'll see something I couldn't even fathom that was there, right? He can fix something with unbelievable autistic like nature when it comes to like working with his hands.
But I surpassed him in three months, business wise. So I, I totally get that. That eventually you will be moving into different states of business, right? Like I didn't start a plumbing company to be a plumber until I'm 60 where I have no knees, cartilage, that's all gone.
I'm in the empire building business, so. But it'll always be around trades because no matter what that is, my, like you said, is part of the archetype, that's it, right? I have to be using my hands always.
HOST
That's exactly what I'm talking about. So it's like you've got to figure out if you're a businessman or more of a cowboy. See, I'm not a businessman. I never will be.
It's not in my nature. I'm not a businessman. I'm not like a guy who's gonna go out and raise capital and build casinos in Nevada. I'm a, I'm more of a cowboy.
I'm a deal maker. So like I, I struggle, I would struggle to slog away and sit there and build a robust business. Which is ironic because one of the only, one of the only aspects of my life that I've really been able to nurture and nurse has been my Twitter account. It's like the one staple that I've had where I've really nurtured it.
Everything else, I'm very free, flowing in flux and I've, I'm very reckless with. But with my account I've sort of nurtured it in a way where it's. It's sort of like a stable business to a degree, which has just kind of been interesting to me and that was just kind of took a natural course of its own.
CALLER 1
But I'm not a businessman. So like, for me, I know that any business opportunity that I could have
HOST
where I could actually build a gigantic empire and crystallize in the real world,
CALLER 1
not gonna happen because I'm not interested in it.
HOST
I'd rather cowboy my way through life, you know what I'm saying? And there's a lot of solo elements to that. There's a lot of solo elements to that. If you have a keen eye, you've seen that I haven't really needed alliances and factions to get to where I'm at on Twitter.
Right. I don't need to do shows with other. I don't need to collaborate. Any collaborations that I've done, I've done by choice.
I don't need to circle jerk. I don't need to like for like, I don't need to retweet for retweet. I've cowboyed my way to basically 100k and I've done it my way and I will continue to do it my way. There's a lot of guys on here, you see, they run in these little clicks and circles and that ain't my style.
That ain't my style. And so it's like you just gotta figure out who the you really are and lean into that.
CALLER 2
No 100. I mean, yeah. No. Would be tough doing things by yourself in a trades aspect.
Right? I mean, you have to have people financing and this and that. But I'm not a businessman either. But I have, I call it business drive to be able to like making deals.
Right. I have. I'm covered in tattoos, I have a giant beard, I got super long hair. I don't belong in boardrooms.
I don't belong in these corporate places. Right. So when I end up making a deal with a large contractor for a massive amount of contracts, it's usually over email. They don't see me, they're talking to me.
And that's it.
HOST
Yep.
CALLER 2
So that's what I mean about. It's like in the empire building business, I don't want to be at the forefront. There's absolutely no reason to be. There's too much pressure.
It's not even worth being. It's like a celebrity. People think celebrities are absolute gems in the stars. They hate themselves because they're constantly under fire, always in the forefront, but the people making the real money are the ones managing them 100%.
CALLER 1
100%. It's like the Kardashians. I mean, the Kardashians were groomed from an early age. They had the.
They had the management talent behind them from a very early age. That entire thing was pre scripted. Kardashians ain't had their own opinion circling in their head since they were four years old, right? They've been spouting everything from their talent team and their managerial systems from day one.
That whole empire was built meticulously off
HOST
the backs of talent agents.
CALLER 1
And there's a lot of people who go that road where they're just like. You think they're free, they're billionaires, but they're more hand. They're more golden handcuffed than any walking.
CALLER 2
Yeah, exactly, man. I really appreciate it if suggestion try to incorporate the trades somehow, you know what I mean? Like, if you're knowledgeable in it at all. Like, I think.
I respect however you're making money as long as you're not hurting anybody, you know, moral standards and whatnot. Yeah, maybe if little research on the trades and see if there's something you're interested in.
HOST
Appreciate it.
CALLER 2
Thanks, man.
HOST
Appreciate you, brother. Misinformation central. Yo, yo.
CALLER 4
And I feel like you're getting it like all the same point with like the vitality or health or like the offense, defense. And I feel like it gets down to like the fundamental thing, right? And so, like, the way I like to look at it is, right, the human is designed in like two different ways, right? So you got your like, high vibrational and your low vibrational, right?
And the low vibrational is like the physical, right? So like money, your genetics, tying you down in the world. And your high vibrational is like your true nature, like your intuition, like what you really want to do. And so when you double down on that high vibrational, it like spikes the vibration up, right?
And I feel like when you double down hard enough, it like spikes that lower vibrational. And like this only happens in the no man's land where you feel like you're down on everything. Then it makes that Mobius strip where you make those quantum leaps and you get to where you want to be.
CALLER 1
Exactly, exactly.
HOST
Like, a lot of my work is designed and focused around skipping a lot of the rigmarole of life. Like there's a way to quantum leap past a lot of that. People get stuck into. That's why I don't.
I don't believe in going down Clogged lanes or clogged paths. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm out here hacking and slashing and paving the way for my. For my predecessors, like my antecedents.
These are gonna pass. We're gonna follow the path that I've hacked for them. And so when you're at the front with that machete and you're hacking through the jungle, you're actually creating a historical landmark. Like, people will walk where you walked that no one walked before.
And so, like, that's the whole thing about legacy, too, is people talk about legacy, and people talk about all these different things that they want to leave behind. It's like, as a man, you want to leave as big of a footprint on this place as you can before you expire.
CALLER 2
And.
HOST
And the only way to do that is usually.
CALLER 1
Usually.
HOST
And the crazy thing is, is those paths that you go down that are. That are a little bit more abstract. Those are the paths where every. That everybody remembers you for.
It's like, it's. You can. It goes back to what I just said about the millionaires. The most common thing in the world.
It's the most common thing in the world because you can play somebody else's game to get there. And. And. And I just refuse to do.
I. Bro. I could be set. So set and cozy and comfortable for life if I took some of my way.
It's just. It's not my way. It's not my way of being. And I understand that.
What I'm basically bargaining with is I'm trading my vitality for comfort.
CALLER 1
I ain't doing that.
CALLER 4
Yeah.
CALLER 1
There's no.
HOST
There's no possibility that I'm doing that. It's not for sale. It's not for sale. My vitality is everything, that energy that I have, and I haven't been able to figure it out yet.
CALLER 1
I think it's the.
HOST
I think it's the most difficult question to answer in life is why do
CALLER 1
some men have this godlike Promethean energy
HOST
as opposed to others? Where does that come from? No one's really been able to give a firm answer on it, but I think it's something.
CALLER 1
It's not. It's not biochemical. It's not a biochemical cocktail. It has nothing to do with hormones.
HOST
I think it's something more fundamental, like probably brain structure.
CALLER 1
But some dudes just have a literal, indefatigable resolve. They just don't tire.
HOST
They don't get quelled down, and they just. You can't quiet them and I've never been able to answer the question as to why. Some have it.
CALLER 1
I have it.
HOST
I have it. I'm still going.
CALLER 4
I think it's your intuition and just doubling down on what your true nature is and what you really want. Because personally, I found it doesn't really matter what the I do. It doesn't matter if I'm playing baseball or making art or even playing Minecraft or something. I do it the same way.
And the more I focus on doing it my way, the more, like, it just seems to work out better in any field, to be honest. And I like to link it back to relationships and just like people, right? Because I would say that's my biggest, like, block, right? And, like, in 22, I was still in high school.
I was focused on trying to get women and trying to make friends as hard as I possibly could, and it was just the biggest brick walls. It didn't matter what I did, right? Nothing was happening. Everything was just horrible.
And it wasn't until I just gave up and started focused on my. What I was really good at. Just, like, sitting in my house thinking and where I just kind of happened to just get thrown these amazing friends that were just, like, way better than any of these people I was previously trying to associate with, and those friends are now throwing me women. Like, it's insane.
Like, the. Doesn't make any sense.
HOST
Nah, man, it doesn't.
CALLER 1
It doesn't.
HOST
And. And it's not supposed to. It's that it's not supposed to. When you.
When you think you have the most things figured out in life is when you're struggling the hardest and when things are clicking. There's really no genuine reason behind it when you're winning. There's, like, actually no genuine, logical reason for why things are happening. It's a.
It's a. The whole world is built off the backs of reverse psychology. Reverse psychology is running the entire show out here.
CALLER 4
That's really all I had to say. I can let somebody else take the floor.
CALLER 5
Yeah.
HOST
Appreciate you. Let's get Zerka up here.
CALLER 1
What's up, Zerka?
CALLER 8
Yo. I'm not Zerker. This is a page that I created like, a business.
HOST
I realized that. Yes, I realized that.
CALLER 1
Get to it.
CALLER 8
My name is Alex. Yo. Wonderful to see guys like you, men like you inspiring the youth. And I would like to make a question if you do have, like, a young general, a young soldier that would like to come on a podcast.
Because my goal is to inspire these kids to. And men in general to act. Do not be afraid of showing their faces and stand what they. They value, like family.
My old. My old goal is to put together people that want to make a net. So I'm asking you if you do have, like, someone that you subscribe that has not make an impact yet or hasn't started yet, that would like to come on the podcast and, you know,
HOST
talk about the issues that you see. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stop. We're not doing that on a live show.
Let's get Christian up here.
CALLER 1
Yo, what's up, bro?
CALLER 5
I was kind of intrigued when you said that the dudes who do the best are the ones who, like, spit in the face of. Of the miracles that they're constantly, like, blessed with, because that kind of flies in the face of what I guess you hear more regarding gratitude and all of that. Did you mean that they don't place enough importance on those things to. To kind of, you know, the.
Whatever's going on, or. Could you, like, just explore that more, please?
HOST
Exactly. Exactly. They don't recognize the miracle as a miracle. So it doesn't.
It doesn't start. It doesn't stunt them. It doesn't retard their growth. There's some.
There's some human thing where. When you place too much appreciation on. On the moment or what's happening, you are in quicksand. And there's.
There's some divine benevolence that happens to people who don't even recognize. They don't even have the recognition of how blessed they are. Those are, ironically, the guys who go the first. Look, the world goes to the ungrateful, the world goes to the ungrateful.
The people who search for more when it's never good enough. Those are the people who end up with everything. And that's the great paradox of life. And that's where New age wisdom has really put a huge handicap and a ceiling on people.
Is everyone's been taught to fucking embrace the miracles, sit with them, fucking light your candles, knees on the floor, elbows on the bed, fucking pray to the fucking gods that these are going to keep happening.
CALLER 1
Those motherfuckers don't get anything.
HOST
It's the people who don't even recognize. It's amazing how it. Everything ties back and reinforces my fundamental philosophy. Right.
What I'm saying is, is I've said before that if you recognize your own talent, it immediately evaporates from you. And so it's incredible how when you don't place too much emphasis on something, you get more of it. It's the same thing in relationships, right? You, too much emphasis on a woman or too much emphasis on one thing,
CALLER 1
it always flees from you, always.
HOST
But when you're sort of careless and
CALLER 1
you're, you have that, that spreads the Torah, it's just unbelievable how it just
HOST
continues to reinforce and give.
CALLER 1
Life is fundamentally and inherently a giving mechanism.
HOST
It's giving. It's very giving. It gives, it gives every day.
CALLER 1
There's so much to give.
HOST
There's so much to plunder from the world every single day.
CALLER 1
And it'll continue to give as long
HOST
as you don't place too emphasis or recognition on it. You know what I'm saying? Because the, the recognition and emphasis is what stops you in your tracks, is what I'm trying to say. And the universe don't work like that.
In the temporal plane, in the temporal plane of time and space, it rewards movement. It rewards movement, constant movement. That's how you heal the body. That's how you heal the mind.
Look, there's a reason why in trauma centers, cancer patients, people who have critical illnesses or are in critical condition, they have to believe in their own mind that recovery is possible, for the recovery to happen. And so, like, there's this emphasis. There's, there's, there's people who recover from the most insane, dilapidated conditions because they just simply believe in their mind that it's possible. And that's kind of what I'm saying in this entire talk, to sum it up in a nutshell, is you have to believe that recovery is possible first.
First and foremost. First and foremost, you have to treat the mental before you treat the physical.
CALLER 5
100 and so I'm curious then, how do you personally marry that, like, lack of importance and not pedestalizing anything with intensity and with kind of giving it your all?
HOST
Well, the intensity is just in the movement itself. It's just, it's just in continuing to go right. It's not getting, you never want to get caught on your heels. It's like you get the lambo, you get the girl, and then everyone starts to rest on their laurels.
CALLER 1
The world punishes that severely.
HOST
There is severe punishment for people who come into rewards and then sit on them. You have to almost be blase about it. There's like this nonchalance, I would say, in man, the number one. The number one trait in a man by far is nonchalance.
Nonchalant, just being completely unaffected by the equanimity of a situation and just continuing to move forward regardless. Like, the rewards will just continue to come in droves in droves.
CALLER 1
And that's why, that's why I always said, man, like a really, really well
HOST
lived life is very blurry. It's very blurry. You look back on the best times of your life and they're blurry. You can't even.
CALLER 1
They're not really vivid.
HOST
You always have vivid memories of the
CALLER 1
pain, but the golden times are just
HOST
a flash in the pan.
CALLER 1
You look back on your life, you
HOST
never really remember the golden moments.
CALLER 5
I can really relate to that, like, especially over the last year because like the high. When I was writing it, I guess not to say that, you know, things are awful right now, but it, it does seem or feel like, like a blurry moment that kind of just went by in the blink of an eye. And so I'm also curious, like, is it just. Is there a workaround here where you can enjoy like the best things in life without pedestalizing them?
Or like, is there in the, you know, just being nonchalant at the same time? Or is it kind of inevitable that stuff just gets normalized to you and you shrug your shoulders at it and you just end up wanting more? Like, if that makes sense.
HOST
That's what happens. That's what happens, dude. That's. It's one of the craziest paradoxes of being a man is like the more you embrace and enjoy the moment, the more it slips away from you.
You know what I'm saying? It's. It's crazy. This is biblical.
I'm talking, by the way, if you look in, in all these religions and like the guys who God struggled to tame the most were his favorites. And that's just, that's just how it always works, man. It's like how the, it's how the matrix and how the nature. It's set up that way.
It's just completely set up that way. It's like the more you discard whatever you have, the more, the more gifts you get. It's bizarre, but it's how it works.
CALLER 1
So it's like the, the least objectively,
HOST
the moments where you should be enjoying the most are the moments that you're. That you're going to be hating it the most.
CALLER 5
Yeah.
HOST
If that makes, if that makes sense.
CALLER 8
Yeah.
CALLER 5
And I, I know you mentioned before you had this awesome tweet about fear of abandonment, which I kind of feel like you've answered a bit in your responses just now. Is there anything you want to add to that too? Because I was really. You said that you might make a space on it.
I was really Keen to hear about that. Getting over fear of abandonment.
CALLER 1
So abandonment's a trip.
HOST
And what I was thinking about abandonment is I think. I think we live in a society now where we have more people that have been fostered to have fear of abandonment more than any other society. And I think where it comes from is fundamentally, I think it all starts kind of in pregnancy now.
CALLER 4
So.
HOST
So we'll do like a little anthropological excavation right now. Women used to have natural births before the advent of epidural. And I believe what's happened is babies that are born through the vaginal canal from a woman who had epidural. The epidural basically severs the connection, the emotional connection between the baby and the mom because you just go numb, right?
CALLER 1
Your spinal cord is completely numb. You're pain free. So now the baby needs to sense.
HOST
Because when a baby's coming out of the canal, the baby is working with the mother. It's the first trial and tribulation that a baby experiences coming into the world is navigating that labyrinth through the canal, working with the mom, right? Their head is fucking squishy.
CALLER 1
They're fucking squeezing themselves through a very small tube.
HOST
It's a very, very impressive process.
CALLER 1
So there's this quote from Carl Jung where he talks about how you come into the world is how you stay in the world. So that first travesty, that first gauntlet,
HOST
that first crucible that a baby is forced to go through in childbirth, that's the first remnants and semblance of personality that's being formed in that challenge. That challenge of being born crystallizes some sort of strength and character in a baby. What happens is when there's. When the epidural is administered to a mom, which, like, I want to say well over 80% of pregnancies now are fucking done through epidural, that connection gets severed.
And I believe that the baby experiences feelings of abandonment by losing that emotional connection to the mom. Because, like, now you got mom sitting in a fucking hospital bed around on their phone and watching TV while they're giving birth.
CALLER 5
You know, it's super. It's super uncanny that you say that. Maybe this is good, like anecdotal data for you. Because I was separated from my mom at 7 days old because I had bacterial meningitis.
And I was. I was always had like a back of the napkin theory that if, like, if that had anything to do with the. Not the way that I turned out, but you know what I mean, the stuff that we're talking about right now.
HOST
Yeah, bro, 100. So that, like, that abandonment now is just a common thing. And I think that it gets deeply, deeply engraved in the psychology of youngsters when they're super young, and it never really goes away. So natural birth is that is sort of a remedy to that feeling, that care and nurturing and protection during birth.
And I think that's what's kind of fostered it. But then, obviously, there's a lot of sociocultural issues that go along with it, which I'll talk about later. But I think that's fundamentally why we do have a society where everyone has massive fear of abandonment. It's because during pregnancy, they were basically neglect, basically abandoned.
You know, that's. And that's exactly what happened. And so it's just a interesting thing, man. We can go on and on about it,
CALLER 5
for sure. Thank you.