Vitality - special guest

00:00:03HOST

All right, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna give a warm introduction to a fascinating guy, Nate Lawrence. For those of you who don't know who he is, he's a guy that I see as having roots, very strong roots in intuitive living. But I do think he has a very strong academic foundation in the field of.

Of just bioenergetics and understanding the fundamental structure of the mechanics of the body and mind and how these things synergistically function. Very sharp. Very sharp guy. And he caught my eye a couple months ago, and I think he's a perfect guest for the show because it's an intersection of a guy like me who's much more anecdotal in my approach because I'm just a.

Basically a mad scientist who everything I've discovered about health and life and vitality has just been through rigorous experimentation in the lab. But I think he has more of an academic foundation, and I think that overlay intersects perfectly for an enjoyable discussion. So kick your feet up and sit back, because this is basically going to be just like a conversation between me and him as if we're in our living room and you guys are just a fly on the wall, and we're just going to be going through these. These broad topics.

Now, his work is. Is rooted largely. I see him as making addendums to Ray Pete's work. Now, I myself am not too familiar.

I have a very rudimentary understanding of rape, heat and bioenergetics and what that stuff's all about. But as I just said, there's definitely some cross pollination between my ideas and just this overall overarching intersection. So, Nate, if you want to pop in, bro, and just introduce yourself.

00:02:10CALLER 1

Yeah, bro. Appreciate it. You know, we. We've been trying to do this for a little while, but I.

I think I found you like, end of 2022. Saw the looks, Max's video, and at first I just thought you were another, like, guru, money, Twitter type guy. I kind of wrote it off. Then I.

Then I started seeing some more of your tweets, and I immediately just started seeing that there were parallels there. And I, you know, wrote a few threads about that and, you know, after that, got on a few spaces and then just. We hopped on a call a little bit ago. I think we ended up talking for, like five hours, bro.

It was. It was crazy. I think it was one of the most profound calls that we hopped on because. Because again, this whole picture is.

Is interconnected through this idea of energy. And I'm seeing it really from the lens of Ray's work. And it's again, like you just said, the whole intuitive structure of it. It's just unbelievable.

00:03:06HOST

100 and that conversation that we had was not recorded. But it's. We can just consider it part of the lost tapes. It's.

It's somewhere in the archives. But it's. Yeah bro. 100 and I just want to kind of springboard from there and I just want to come off the jump and say that, you know, the. I kind of have an ax to sharpen against some of these techniques.

And maybe you can play devil's advocate. But here's what I see. I see a lot of these guys that are basically going all in on health maxing as essentially, I think adult children really gravitate to the idea of having a perfect portrait of health. And the reason I think that is I know a couple guys who have gone super hard into the PD stuff.

And these guys are literally consuming mountains of sugar left and right. And they're almost in like a childlike glazed over, Willy Wonka style like state of wonder and bemusement all the fucking time. And I think what I'm seeing is that people are using food and people are using supplements as a surrogate means of just getting the thrill of living life. And I think a lot of these people that are sitting at home and curating these perfect fucking diets have completely forgotten how to live.

But more poignant, I think that they have lost the concept that the. The greater bio reward feedback system actually comes from achieving what you want in life. And that's more of a metaphysical, broader, unquantifiable concept. But the reality is from my perspective is that when you kill, when you make a kill in life, whether that's a sale, whether that's picking up a girl, whether that's achieving anything that you want, I believe that life is very much largely a process of kill, heal, kill, heal, kill, heal.

And I don't really see these guys that are absolutely in this childlike state of wonder that I told you about because they're basically trying to recreate the euphoria of winning through food. And I think the holy grail is having a combination of both.

00:05:36CALLER 1

100%. Yeah. Because there's something interesting. Like people always talk about the idea of like maximizing the metabolism.

Of course, this is the, the big. The big idea. But really the whole point of this is to move life forward. You know, I think the idea of maximizing the youthful state is ultimately much more rational and mature than most people see it as and it's, it's kind of funny because you can definitely get in this kind of quelled down, not directed forward, but it's, it's, you know, it's the same thing with the bodybuilders.

It's the same thing with the ancestral primal crowd. It's almost like I see that as a form of self mutilation, that, that ancestral primal that we need to return, that we need to go back to this easy youth idea. It's, I think, a way to respond to a stressful environment and lower function. When really I see increasing your energy, increasing your metabolism really is maximizing your ability to expand life.

And, and really that's like Ray Pete's thesis is. His idea was energy and structure are interdependent at every level. So if you can see the energy flowing through a system, the things that you do in life, the things that you consume, the things that you're striving towards, you can kind of see it like a spiral upwards, almost like the building of a whole symphony. And, and that's kind of my whole big picture of it because it's always needs to be directed forward.

People kind of get caught in this idea that, you know, just having the food, having the, the dietary framework is the end. But like I, I see you get it perfectly where that's just the instrument to, to, you know, you aren't the mission, the mission is the mission. And you just, you use those to sharpen yourself and it's, it's never the end mean, you know.

00:07:23HOST

Yeah, exactly. I think I've used the analogy in, in prior spaces that the sharpening the knife is just the means. And a lot of these motherfuckers are just spending their time sharpening the knife, but they never use the knife.

00:07:35CALLER 1

Yeah, exactly.

00:07:37HOST

And I guess my overall point is, is that when it comes to vitality and it comes kind of fostering this ethic of just good health and healthy living in general. I do think it involves that achievement system. I think 100% reigns supreme in all domains. In other words, a man who's truly pursuing his inner desires, his innermost desires, and actually achieves that, there is a reward system that pays off.

It's like a slot machine. It pays greater dividends than any other combination of any kind of health apparatus that you can apply.

00:08:13CALLER 1

Totally.

00:08:13HOST

And I think, and I think it's not even close. And I think that the guys who essentially are repressing their innermost desires are the guys who get punished the hardest in life. But you're absolutely right. With the bodybuilding thing, it's.

It's a similar vein, because what it is, is, it's. It's avoidance of risk. There's. There's a lot of safety and comfort in the gym.

And so you got. Who are in there for four to five hours a day, because it's not really a true arena. You can hide in there and you can just be a meathead, and you can. You can take refuge and find safety and comfort and shelter yourself in that kind of bunker, but all you've done is garrison yourself away from life.

And I am. I am an advocate for not shielding yourself from the good, the bad, and the ugly. I think that a man specifically is hardwired and designed to deal with the good, the bad, the ugly. Yeah, go ahead.

00:09:14CALLER 1

I. I think that it's like that in itself is actually way more bioenergetic than. Than anything else because, like, really maximizing the intensity of life is the point. It's.

It's never about longevity. So, like, people always say, oh, how. How can you, like, idolize Ray? Or how.

How can, like, you follow his work? When he lived to 86, his teeth fell out. The guy was functioning like a. Like, he was, like, 40 years younger at the age of 86, like, just way more energy than anyone critiquing him.

And I think that's a big point that I was talking about with this bioenergetic research. This guy, Georgie Dinkov, he's a absolute genius. He has, like, I think maybe two or three jobs, and he's a supplement company and a family. He.

The dude is just doing so much. He's just overflowing with energy, but he's a little bit overweight, bald. It's like, people always say, okay, well, how does he know so much? If.

If this philosophy really means so much, then. Then why does the dude not look like a Greek God? And he said he's like, if these people want to keep telling this to me, come into my life, step into my life and see what it's like, because they, I guarantee, will not have much to say then. And I think he just gets a great point with that because the.

The whole thing with him is he's. He's moving life forward. He's researching. He's.

The dude just did a study on cancer. He just. He. He's curing cancer, and people want to talk about, oh, his appearance.

It's like, I wrote a thread. This is the first thread that I did with you, and I connected it with Georgie. It's like, would you rather look good or get things done. Because it's two things in the modern environment, and it's.

It's a really big void that a lot of guys are. Are not even understanding this. This whole sharpening thing is not the end.

00:10:59HOST

Nah, it's not the end at all. It kind of goes back to my tweet that I want to draw from yesterday, which is an important one, which is that. That you. There are.

I have a suspicion in my personal life that I have had drastic injuries and trauma to my body from hardcore living that I have absolutely zero clue has existed. I have a feeling that when I was Olympic lifting very heavy, I can almost guarantee I had some stress fractures in my hands. My feet have been completely fucking abused and annihilated. And because I was living true to my nature and because I was actually pursuing what I wanted in life, I have a feeling that there was, like, a layer of masking tape over those injuries.

And I do think that illnesses, trauma. There are motherfuckers who 100% have cancer right now that have no idea and will probably go on to live 45 to 50 years and have zero fucking clue that there's actually cancer in their body because it's dormant, it's in remission because they're just living life to the fullest. And I. I honestly think that asymptomatic life is the way to go.

There's zero way to avoid trauma and illness in the body. There's zero way.

00:12:17CALLER 1

Not at all. No.

00:12:18HOST

And I'm. And I've been asymptomatic. And you also see this at the highest levels of the game. I've seen.

I've seen guys like Allen Iverson in the NBA play through arduous playoff schedules with, like, broken fingers, broken thumbs up. They tape it up, and they're still shooting jumpers and still torching opponents. So, like, there's many examples of guys that are living at their maximum capacity that have severe injuries that they're able to work through just because of the mentality that they have 100%.

00:12:50CALLER 1

Yeah. And I think that's the whole point. Like, really, like Georgie said something. Like, he said, I don't think high metabolism makes you more res.

I don't think it makes you less resilient. I think it makes it more. More resilient. Resilient to the stressors of life.

Because really, the whole thing is just having the energy to not put up with and keep moving. Like, that's ultimately the resistance thing. And there's also a thing I Think like Ray said, he's like, when your health, when you don't have interest in your health issues anymore, you're probably going in the right direction. And it's like, it's funny because most issues, you can just ignore and move through them.

Like, most of my gut issues that I dealt with, I just had to keep flying through them. But it really got to the point where it's just intuitive. Like you. I.

My whole picture was follow intuition and that will get through any setback physically because you know what you're supposed to be doing. You can have a complete conviction when you have an intuitive feeling. And it just takes a few moments. But really no one can sit with that and say, what do I need to be doing?

That's kind of when I think you end up with the people who just start eating like ice cream, only getting fat, not doing anything. It's ultimately just running from your intuition. I don't think there's a single way to be actually bioenergetic and end up in a worse state of life. But yeah, I think it always upregulates, to be honest.

00:14:11HOST

But 100%. So that circles back to my point. Let's talk about retirement for a second. And, and, and kind of to put an accent on what I just said in my, in my prior speech.

When people retire or they stop pursuing their dreams as they get older, have you noticed? And I've seen this a lot, all those injuries and all that trauma to the body just magically starts popping up like whack a mole. Guys will all of a sudden be arthritic. They're coasting, they're coasting on their laurels.

They're retired, they're done. They're not moving. They're not taking on challenges anymore. Then they get slapped with cancer.

Then all the symptoms start to rear their ugly head. I've seen, I've seen this over and over again.

00:14:54CALLER 1

It's, it's like. What's the quote? I think it's to, to retire is to expire. Like, I, I really do see that as the, the main focus is like, keeping the apparatus moving at all costs.

Like when you run out of energy, when things become static, this is where all the problems evolve. Like, you can literally see this at the most basic level, this is the, like, propagation of evil, you could say, in a sense. But really, I think an accumulation of stress is, is what it is because we can all have stress. Nothing's going to change how much stress we have.

But our ability to, to move through it and Metabolize it essentially was my focus. And Ray has this, this idea of like anti stress living or anti stress substances. And I think that's like the thing it goes back to like you mentioned before how like all the force production in life comes when you're in a catabolic state and that you essentially will go nowhere if you're not willing to deteriorate yourself. And I completely agree with that.

But something I found extremely profound from bioenergetics is that it kind of brings the understanding of how to protect yourself in that process. And the ultimate idea is just keeping up the metabolic rate to oppose stress. You know, like I said, nothing can really change how much we deal with but just how we respond to that. And you notice that many of the greats of history just intuitively understand this.

Like caffeine, nicotine, sugar, milk, aspirin, like they just all happen to be used by all of the innovators throughout time. And I, I know we kind of talked about a little bit with like diet and like how you said you, you had an experience with aspirin. That to me was just so profound.

00:16:30HOST

100 let's talk about cigarettes for a second. I view cigarettes as a food. I don't think people genuinely really understand that, you know, cigarettes is really no different than a food. So I view cigarettes as sort of like an external organ.

You could almost, you could almost see it as an external thyroid in the palm of your hand. And a guy like me who does, I, I do live at the edge. I, I objectively have a very stressful lifestyle that I've chosen. The cigarette to me is no different than salt.

You know what I'm saying? It's like a, it's like a synthesized mineral vitamin in the palm of your hand and the consumption of it. 100 because I'm on. I am, I am personally, I don't eat sugar. I'm on.

I'm on high animal fat. I've been doing this for 20 years. Everyone told me I was going to crash and burn and blow my fuses and have malfunctions. Hasn't occurred yet.

But I do have a feeling that the cigarette is sort of like a surrogate form of sugar to a degree. What are your thoughts on that?

00:17:31CALLER 1

Yeah, I, I 100 see what you mean. Because, because I think just. Well, when did you start smoking cigarettes? If like.

I don't, I don't really know that.

00:17:40HOST

Probably 15 years ago.

00:17:42CALLER 1

Damn. Yeah, I, I really see it as just a way to lower stress and just. It is, it is Legitimately pro metabolic, you know, nicotine, good substance for increasing energy. But it's, it's like the, the thing that people kind of forget with a lot of these things is that there can be slightly detrimental things physiologically that, that end up just moving you forward.

And I think that's what you lean into. Like, it's, it's the thing in the health crowd that kind of splits the primal ancestral crowd and the peak crowd. The peak crowd is kind of fine, just experimenting and moving with anything. And I think that's why a lot of people are like, oh, look at these motherfuckers just eating sugar and just having milk.

Like, I don't know how this is going to, to be good for. Like, it's ultimately justified from like a, a person who came from health as, as like a. Like you said, kind of like that baby mentality of just like having drink and food. But really, like, to me it's just a useful tool for, for accelerating life.

Like, I, I really see it in that lens. But it's kind of hard to get someone into that philosophy if they really don't have any reason to be there. Like, I think a lot of guys will never really understand the bioenergetic framework. And it's not really even something you can teach someone.

It's something that you just fall into. Like, I think that's one of the last rites of passage, the one of health, of, of coming to these ideas. Because, like, you'll see guys like Paul Saladino, like, he started as a Carnivore and he 100% had issues from that he talked about. He had like electrolyte issues or other things like that.

And then he started bringing in carbs. And the one thing with meat and carbs together is you're getting a excess of iron from, from combining them because both of those synergize and you can have iron toxicity from that. So it's like these things always need the context. And that's what Ray always looked at.

So that's why he saw calcium and milk as a way to inhibit iron absorption. So if you're having like fruit with meat, consuming it with calcium, or consumer with coffee, consuming it with these different things that can inhibit the negative properties of it. And also gelatin, like we used to eat nose to tail, and we would be getting like around half of that protein coming from gelatin instead of just muscle meat. So it's like these kind of things Ray put together throughout his work.

And it's just a really powerful thing because I think I see it more in line with the ancestral thinking. I see it as like kind of a movement towards more life. And, and the primal idea I think is, is useful but really it's turning back to lower function when I really think or ordering and becoming higher in your, in your energy and structure is the ultimate idea. That's I think the big focus that you have too with just evolving life and getting to the extent where you're exceeding your potential.

That was on paper.

00:20:39HOST

Yeah, 100%. Let's talk about the adage, the. It's sort of this old wives tale wisdom about this, this concept that stress kills because I see it as the opposite. I see that the people who have an easy, comfy life, especially in the later years, I see atrophy and I see immense bodily and spiritual deterioration.

And I think that the ones who are commanding their stress and wielding the stress and choosing the stress are the ones who outlive everybody. So I, I see, I see, I see being in charge of your stress and taking on the challenge and, and taking stewardship over that. I see that as sort of the bulwark against aging completely.

00:21:28CALLER 1

I think that's the whole picture ultimately, you know, because like aging I think is just the loss of function for, for a calcification almost like I think aging is like a general slow process of calcification where you're losing function because the, the environment around you got too stressful for you, for you to keep moving and, and ultimately keeping the metabolic rate up, keeping energy up is, is always the thing and stimulating work and just having a mission and, and these things, you know, like having, having caffeine, having cigarettes, all of these things support that apparatus. It's pro metabolic ultimately. I see 100.

00:22:10HOST

So what do you think, what do you think the panacea for stress is like? How do you see that picture? I, I think that besides food consumption.

00:22:20CALLER 1

Yeah, there, there's this stress researcher named Hans Selier. He was like in the early 1900s, Ray Pete talked a lot about him. He had this idea about stress called general adaptation syndrome. So essentially it's when you receive, it's like an alarm and then you go, you go into resistance when your resources are maxed out.

And really when you're in that state of resistance, you're always going to end up running out eventually if you don't have something to protect you or keep you moving forward. So it's like I think almost not perceiving something as a problem. Like I think you said this because I heard you talking about stress is that stress is more like the problems perceived, not necessarily the problems you're dealing with. So like it's always the people who are static and just kind of sit, sitting back without the energy that think that going into a stressful place is going to destroy them.

Rather you actually upregulate every time you jump into that. And you're the perfect example of that. You know, just going through that fatigued state. You're always going to upregulate when you have the mission.

But there is 100%, 100% when you're not being directed towards something, you will 100% run out. So it's always important in my opinion to just understand this idea of intuition where you're being guided by higher forces. I, I essentially see that as our connection to the divine. And, and really if you, if you really think about it, intuition is what moves life forward.

You know, any reasoning in life always comes downstream of intuition. All of the generators, all the thinkers, all the innovators, all of them are driven by intuition and things that were not true at one point. It's, there's always something in generation that just overcomes anything in the environment. I think.

00:24:08HOST

Yeah. 100 and those with those avant garde ideas are considered the heretics of our time. And I think I've commented, I've remarked on this in the past, I said that heretics always get vindicated in the end. Yeah, it might, it might be 10 years down the line but like a lot of the ideas that I'm even whipping up and spinning are 100 gonna be time tested a decade from now. 100 and I aware of, I'm aware of that. It seems like heresy now but give it a decade and these are going to be stone cold truths.

00:24:37CALLER 1

Well like you look at like, you know, I brought up William Blake before William Blake, he and Nietzsche too actually. I think they're kind of in a similar vein. They both were only successful really after their time. And it's funny because it's kind of the similar thing with Ray Pete after he passed.

That's really when he started becoming something with his philosophy. And he, he always like there's something about it where you exist outside of time or you exist further down the line when you're really innovating something and it's often that you're not going to have any people understand it in your lifetime. I think like I really see it though culminating in this idea of like process philosophy. I think I might have brought that up to you.

But process philosophy, it's really Just the flow of energy. Philosophy, you know, that idea that, like, life is in constant change and the divine essentially emanates through all things. And. And I think it starts kind of roughly with Heraclitus the philosopher.

You know. No, no man steps in the same river twice. And it's like that kind of comes in with William Blake's work. I think he really illuminated that, this focus on, like, a creative, generative human spirit that, like, God works through biological energy.

And I think, like, people like Ray give a. Give a background to that picture. But it's. It's also really profound because you see it in Eastern philosophy as well, like Taoism.

Like, you see it kind of expressed in that. That light. But ultimately, like, bioenergetics kind of bridges the gap between, like, a Christian ethic. Like, William Blake was a.

Was a Christian, but he kind of flew in the face of a lot of Christian practices and he saw the imagination as the divine. And like, that, to me, is this. This idea that time is not really something that means anything for innovation. Like, innovation exists outside of time.

So that's really why I think things that are being expressed in our lifetime are really kind of further down the line and coming from the past. You know, it's. It's really. You plant a seed with a really good idea.

That's. That's. I think ultimately the best ideas are planted and they take a while to propagate.

00:26:46HOST

Yeah, I can rock with that. I think. I think my standpoint on this is that. I think that I think the pipeline to God actually stems from the gut.

So I think the plumbing system starts from actually the actual gut itself. And I think that when people have eldritch or otherworldly perceptions, like any kind of perfunctory perception of the world, things that seem metaphysical, experiences that seem spiritual or outer body, are all emanating from the intuition in the gut. And it's very easy in my eyes to mistake that as something divine, but I would say it's the closest thing to divinity. In other words, it's.

There has to be. There. There has to be. And.

And here. Here's the interesting paradox to this. The guys that I see with the best intuition in general seem to have massive ruptures and problems with their gut health in the first place. Like, it's ne.

It's never an immaculate perfect vacuum.

00:27:48CALLER 1

No, not at all. And that. That's the crazy thing too. Like, you look throughout history at all people who are just really innovators, and Ray, William Blake, all of these guys just having Issues with their gut.

And that's I think the thing to connect them to the source. Like, like greatness emerges out of sickness. I really see it like that. And like I think Nietzsche talked about that.

But really it's, it's profound because it's called a gut feeling for a reason, you know. And I think you can only get in contact with that from being afflicted with, with that sort of sickness to it, you know.

00:28:26HOST

Exactly. Because then it creates the over compensatory landscape in order to push back. And so it's like without that deficit, without that burden, there's really no motivation or reason to strive. You know what I'm saying?

Like one of my central tenants has always been as a man, you don't want to heal to 100 health. You don't want to heal from all your trauma and all your pain that you've gone through in your life. You don't want to do enough self help work to, to where you are a fully, to where you've basically ratified that. Because what happens is you then take away your drive and motivation to make anything of this world.

You know what I mean? And one of the metaphors that I used is I said that a man and I use heartbreak in a much more broad scope. When I, when I talk about heartbreak, I'm not even talking about heartbreak from a woman. I'm talking about there are plenty of men who have pursued a dream, a catastrophic towering dream in life and they have not made it.

They failed. And maybe that broke their heart. And the fact that you can walk around with that wound makes you a much more powerful creature. But if you took away the wound and you healed it completely, you now don't have that negative force of energy to push off from 100.

00:29:50CALLER 1

100. I, I think like God or divinity is really the, the idea that like there, there are these mechanisms of, of decay and decline that have been placed in, to kind of return someone towards this, this higher level of energy, this higher divinity. You know, I, I ultimately see it in that lens. I think there's, there's a lot of it that, that's unnatural. 100 the environment's deteriorating completely.

But really that is the return to, to this higher God, you know, that I, I really see it in that 100%.

00:30:26HOST

Now let's change tunes for a second. I, I am of the belief that the human body is perfectly suited for the modern environment. I truly believe that. Now I understand that there's xenoestrogens, whatever the, you want to call this BPAS microplastics.

I think the body is 100% suited to tolerate this type of shit. You know what I mean? I, I fucking, I'm a polyester wearing motherfucker. I wear fucking workout tights.

Like I, I don't, I don't trip about any of this, of this stuff. And I also think that the, the worldview in general that humans have the industrial might to poison the Earth is insane. I, I see absurdity in that. I, I don't, I do, I genuinely do not think than any of this climate change and all the, all these narratives about how we've destroyed the planet.

I think the planet is way too powerful and regenerative in general.

00:31:25CALLER 1

100 yeah, yeah. I, I think like there's this guy that Ray talked about, Vernadsky, and he saw this picture of, of life where Earth is really trying to reach towards a new homeostasis. And it's, it's very imbalanced. Like that's the thing that you see is that stimulating the flow of energy requires that you have a preference towards, towards one side than the other.

And that's kind of what creates this spiral. But really the idea in that is that life is going to liberate itself eventually. Like the Earth is heating up, creating more carbon dioxide. You can literally see that as the Earth increasing its metabolic rate and increasing its energy.

And it's kind of crazy because a lot of this, this, this idea that oh, we're running out of resources. I, I don't know, I don't know if any of that is true. You know, it's, it's crazy though because goes against really this, this view of life where I think the modern environment artificially imposes a static view of reality. And a lot of these things that people think are permanent really are just outran by life itself.

The flow of energy will liberate all things and whatever that looks like is, is yet to be understood and never will be actually. But that's, I think that the idea to lion is, is the flow of energy 100%.

00:32:43HOST

So like I have a guy in model of the universe where I think that it's, it's more apropos to Gaia, which is the, the goddess of Mother Nature. I see the Earth as a creature, as a living breathing organism that evolves, it changes its strategy, it's renewable. I don't see the Earth as this mechanistic grandfather clock that everybody thinks it is. Everyone thinks that the Earth is like some mechanistic machine that essentially only has enough ticks in the clock before it all, it all kind of breaks down.

I don't view it that way. And so what I'm saying is, is I think obviously there's synchronicity between humans and all life forms in general with the earth itself. And so the idea that a human species can fucking destroy the oceans, like the narrative has been since we were in fucking fifth grade, they said that we've completely poisoned the earth. That to me just sounds like absolute nonsense.

00:33:37CALLER 1

Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean it's, it's really taking this view that life itself is harmful to life. Like Ray really focused on this because a lot of what like I've, I've had an interest in is this idea that life is really supposed to be effortless. And there's this, this quote that I always go back to the.

The fox provides for himself, but God provides for the lion. And I really think that's giving into the unconscious energy flow of life. And you can see that expressed in almost every single living and non living thing. Like that's what I, I think William Blake was talking about when he said how do we know that every bird that like cuts, cuts the air isn't an intense world of delight or something like that?

And it's funny because it's really this idea that like he said also he was like, if the doors of perception were cleansed, man would see what he was infinite. And that's like. I think the whole picture that, that gets misconstrued now is that life itself is harmful to life and that live and death is what actually brings life or lowering energy is what brings life. Like this is the whole paradigm with like the, the middle.

You know, it's dulling everything down. There's no intensity, there's no polarity. Because this polarity or this contrast is really the thing to stimulate energy. And you dull all of that down when you bring everything into the middle.

And that's why I, I saw your video, like the first one that you did, like the, the Mission is all you have. I, that's why I saw that being just so profound because it brought together what I was seeing before that. And you putting it into the middle was just. Yeah, that to me was something that really oriented a lot.

00:35:17HOST

Yeah, 100% this idea that modern, modern psychiatry, modern medical systems, they basically want to corral everybody in the middle and squash outliers through, through, through, you know, medication and big pharma and they want to basically take any stroke of genius and kind of lasso it back in to the middle. And say, no, no, no, buddy, you can't have these outrageous ideas. No, no, no, no, no. You can't live life slightly fucking crazed, you know what I'm saying?

And like the whole concept that I, that I rock with big time, is that all the geniuses, all the innovators, all the guys that are the best at their craft, the do, they are missing some screws upstairs. And that's sort of where I just get. The whole foundation of my whole philosophy is you. You can be crazy in this life as long as you're aware of the craziness, as long as you've chosen it.

In other words, there are people out there who are definitionally crazy. But the point of the matter is they're completely still aware of the social dynamics, the power dynamics. They're aware of everything going on. And so it's all about the awareness, you know what I mean?

And it's like the guys who are truly crazy, textbook wise, they're completely unaware that they've gone mad, you know what I mean? The guy, the fucking bum at the, at the bus stop who's, who's talking to himself, who's schizophrenic, that guy's gone. He ain't coming back because he has no idea his condition. But if you intentionally draw the rubber band, like the elasticity of the brain and you push it to the outer boundaries there, 100% is a lot to be gleaned and gained in those states, but it's all about the elasticity.

For example, I can sustain long periods of stress and fatigue without my brain breaking. You know what I mean? I can gamble millions of dollars and deal with that. And 100%, when I'm in that state, I'm in that kind of berserker crazed state.

I will rebound back to baseline pretty quickly.

00:37:34CALLER 1

Totally, totally.

00:37:36HOST

Because. Because I'm choosing the stress.

00:37:38CALLER 1

Yeah. You know what I was thinking? Like there's something in that, of pulling back the resistance or pulling back the band. I really think it goes back to like working in ebbs and flows and Running Gun, which is completely your style.

And I think it's because it minimizes, it minimizes an event to such a small window that the intensity is so magnified and it's ultimately anti middle, you know, because you see this like slow delayed release versus these jumps and falls, jumps and falls. That is what really gets you up the ladder. And it's, it's like this whole thing is missed that you can rationally, you can rationally be absurd. Like that's That's, I think, like, there's a real coherence to, to a lot of this.

Like, I think that something is interesting because like you talked about earlier, just kind of this idea of guys kind of leaning into this idea of energy is like a kind of cop out to, to, you know, follow like a youthful spirit. I. I tend to think that maximizing the youthful state is the entire idea of what, what you talk about. And, and the reason is because it goes back to energy flow.

The high energy flow is, is the youthful spirit, the creative, generative spirit. They're ultimately more intelligent, more rational, more rational than the mature guy. The mature guy is, is completely static, completely calcified in his mind, you know, stuck in his ways. And I think there's not anything admirable about that.

You know, there's this whole talk of like.

00:39:04HOST

So that.

00:39:05CALLER 1

Yeah, you can go.

00:39:06HOST

Let me interrupt you. That, that. That's a, that's a great point.

00:39:11CALLER 1

The.

00:39:12HOST

There's a lot of renditions in history. A lot of philosophers have sort of used colorful metaphors to explain this. I actually think there's a quote from Heraclitus that said that the universe is a child at play with colored balls. And there is a lot of childish metaphor that have been brought to the table to sort of explain a lot of these dynamics.

I agree with you. But it's interesting to me because I think the whole idea of adulting, being an adult is very much a social construct. And the ones who partake in it the most, the ones who are obsessed with maturation and being a quote, unquote adult, I find that they have the most stultified energy. Have you noticed this?

Like, if you noticed that what basically the school system does is it grooms you to be an adult, the archetypal adult completely. And the social construct of an adult is very fascinating to me because objectively, what I've seen, the guys who make the most gains and reap the most rewards in life are generally pretty irresponsible. And I think, and I think responsibility, like in the classic sense of being an adult, where everyone thinks that as long as I have all my bills paid and as long as I'm up to date on everything, that I'm. I'm an adult and I'm responsible.

I don't see it in that lens whatsoever.

00:40:49CALLER 1

No, you. Not at all. Well, here's the thing. I think it's like we talk about aging.

I really see aging as this cutting off of energy flow at the expense of function. So, like, these dull Routines and you know, the slow paced schedule. These, these cliche wordings like that is all from a static flow of energy or there's essentially like serotonin is, is some hormone that you can look at. People call it the happy hormone.

Serotonin can really be seen as the hibernation hormone in the metabolic view. It lowers energy and promotes this kind of repetitive thing. And it's, it's ultimately all leads back to this, this thing I mentioned, like the calcification that, that really is death is when you're expense or when your energy flow is cut off because the environment is too stressful. That's really I think where you see the maturity and the adult thing coming about.

Like William Blake said something about like avoiding dull minds. And I really think he was talking about serotonin and just this construct that any cliches, any repetitive nature is ultimately probably degenerating structurally for the, for the organism. And you can kind of see it in nature too, like it's cancer. Metabolism is ultimately this primitive form of metabolism where you're using glucose and wasting it away into lactic acid instead of going through these more complex apparatuses to generate more carbon dioxide and more ATP.

Like carbon dioxide is. One of the things you can look at is as like a flow promoter. And ultimately I do think it all goes back to the metabolism of energy, the oxidation of energy. But yeah, it's like all of the, all of the stressful things in life kind of promote this primitive form of metabolism that lowers energy flow that essentially takes away and devolves higher function.

Like you can see it with digestion, probably the number one. And look at the issues that we're facing today. Look at all the issues that people are dealing with. Everybody has low level gut issues and does not even know that they are deteriorating structurally.

People who dealt with issues in the past used to be elderly, bro. And these issues are seen younger and younger. All of the mental faculties are gone. So many zoomers, bro, that just cannot function.

I really do think it comes back to this idea that just there's not enough energy, not enough stimulation. This whole thing that like kids are overstimulated is a hundred percent true. But it's really stimulation from the wrong things, things that are exciting and not providing resources back like, like social media. I actually think that spending more time on social media is probably good for young people when they have proper nutrition and other stimulation in life.

Like I spend probably. I can't even tell you how long, how much I spend on my phone, but it's just increased and my health has gotten better. But that's only because I have this understanding that supplying reserves is what allows the mental state to be in a good place, to really assimilate everything that you're experiencing. That's the whole picture that's missed.

And I don't even know if there's a way to bring it to light. And I think it's probably always going to remain obscure, but I think it's going to. It's going to really guide life. And it's just.

It's really crazy to think about.

00:44:01HOST

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. So when I. When I came out with this idea of leaning into your nature and leaning into your edge, I had some. Some morons try to get cute with the concept.

And someone said, someone in jest made a comment, some kind of reproach, where they were like, oh, does that mean. Because I was basically saying, look, if you can't stop smoking, one of the strategies to quit is to overdo it and take it to the end ranges where you're just hardcore Gatling gunning sigs to the point where you are absolutely sickened and disgusted by it. And by proxy, by proxy, you'll have a desire to stop. That is actually a true way to do it.

Like, if there is something that you can't stop, if you do it enough and you overload it so crazily, you will be mortified and there will be a period of time where you'll just have absentia from it. So someone was like, oh, so are you saying that if I have a porn addiction, I should just keep shucking my corn all day? Like, should I just keep fucking stroking myself all fucking day and watching porn? And it dawned on me when the idiot made that comment, I was like, this guy's a fucking retard.

Because here's the point. It goes back to what you just said. There's zero upside to watching porn. There's no reward.

There actually is not really a fucking reward. The cigarette smoking, though, is an entirely different fucking ball game. We just discussed that cigs can lead to innovation and extra creativity and shit like that. It's all about what you're choosing.

There's zero fucking upside to porn. None. In fact, I would argue the opposite. The chimpanzee brain gets fooled and tricked into believing that you are at the bottom of the troop, right?

Because we know as primates, especially chimps, humans, we all live in sort of a social hierarchy. And when you watch porn, what you're essentially telling the chimpanzee brain in your subconscious is that you are so undesirable that you are at the bottom of the totem pole and you are invisible and you are unwanted and you are a rejected specimen. And that has biological consequences. I don't give a what anybody says.

That type of unconscious imagery and messaging is extremely destructive to the biome.

00:46:27CALLER 1

Exactly.

00:46:27HOST

Yeah.

00:46:28CALLER 1

And here's, here's the thing that is super interesting to me is that I've noticed like any addiction is therapeutic to a degree. So the, the way that I see it, addiction in like this bioenergetic view. You know, Danny Roddy and Ray Pete and Georgie Dinkov, they've talked about this. It's like there's a, there's a real biological craving for something that you're, you're addicted to.

Whether that's smoking, whether it's porn, whether whatever it is, you're getting something from that. But it's, it's into the, it's to the point where it's not actually supporting your, your energy and function. It's. It's like the modern environment puts in all of these things that are going to play to your senses that actually deplete energy rather than generate energy.

And that's, I think, the whole thing of the reversal of nature that people talk about or whatever. Like you brought up like the polyester and xenoestrogens, I think, like only when you're resistant is that something. Or only when you're resilient is that something that a person can kind of not give a about. Because really, like in a low energy state, people don't even realize how much they're deteriorating just by eating like a few meals of McDonald's, bro.

Like, it's just that to me is the thing like you shouldn't be like our default food or our default cravings should always be one of, of generation of health. And that I think is something completely missed. Like when you have this bioenergetic understanding, you can follow every single craving and you actually should not, you should not reject a single craving because there's a real biological mechanism for that and that there's, there's something in your organism telling you that it's going to lead you towards higher structure. But it's important to recognize which ones are pro metabolic versus anti metabolic.

Like really, that's what it gets down to.

00:48:11HOST

100%, 100%. Like, I love gambling. I love it. And I don't think most people will ever go through life understanding that kind of relationship with a Craft or an art.

I. The kind of love that I have for what I do is absolutely fucking otherworldly. And when you love something so much, it's extremely fucking painful. It's extremely fucking painful.

Because love loving anything in general, whether it's a human, your craft, anything, anything that you fall in love with, has a feeling that you're out of control, that you're out of control. And I think that's why people struggle to bond with other people, have a struggle to sort of stay committed to a path, is because they're afraid that the love is essentially going to overpower and overtake them, which is why it's 100 times easier to internalize a miserable state. Because when you're. When you're miserable and depressed, you have a false sense of control over your life because you're the one directing and enacting the misery.

Staying in misery gives people a lot of feeling of control and power over their situation. When in. When in fact, it's the complete opposite.

00:49:28CALLER 1

Completely. Completely. It's. It's like.

That's actually more static. That's actually an accumulation of stress when. When really, like, bingo. There's not much that you should internalize as a.

That kind of gets back to the flow idea where the things that you do in life. There's something really interesting to me that I didn't really understand at first. I think Ray said something like, somebody asked him, is there any cause that you would die or is there anything that you would die for? And he was like, no, I don't.

I don't think so. And that kind of like, took me back because I'm like, this guy's committed to life. He's committed to health. And it took me a while because I.

I'm totally of the opinion that you should have things that you should die for, you should want. You should die for, for your mission. But ultimately what I realized is he wasn't talking about. He wouldn't die for.

For any cause. What he's talking about is he's not going to become static anywhere. He's. He's ultimately dying for.

For life. That's ultimately, I think, his whole purpose. Like. But people get caught in this idea that you need to have a place to rest on.

Ultimately, nothing can be rested on. It's that. It's. That warrior, bro.

Exactly. Doesn't exist anymore, bro.

00:50:35HOST

Exactly. Exactly. There's no perch. There's no perch.

There's no throne. And what I want to say is I want to give kind of an anecdote A personal example from my life that illustrates what I'm talking about perfectly in this idea. Because I've, I've said before that I've been sort of disenchanted with the idea of linear gains, right? I've, I've mocked it, I've, I've derided it publicly because I said success is not linear.

And what I mean by that is like to illustrate the zigzag pattern of success. Let me give you a completely off the wall example of what I mean in my business, in the way I roll. Realistically, because I'm such a reckless high wire walking, I. In order for me to net $5 million, I gotta make 20.

Okay, wrap your head around this for a second. In order for me to seriously net 5 million, I have to generate 20 million. And the reason is because I don't stop and I don't quit. And I'm always pushing the challenge.

I, I pretty much know who I am and I know that if I come into 20 mil, I'm probably going to burn 15 of it trying to get to 100. And so someone would look at that and they'd be like, why don't you just make 20 mil and stop? And what they failed to understand is that the only reason why I'm the type of guy who can get to 20 million in the first place is because of that aggressive approach. So it all goes back to that aggression.

I have to overshoot and overpower my goals in life by several miles, by many, many kilometers over the target just to land where I want to be. Because there's going to be a massive amount of runoff. Because I know when I get 20, I'm going to shoot for 100.

00:52:28CALLER 1

It's crazy that you.

00:52:29HOST

That's perfect. That's a perfect example of the ebb and flow and vitality of life. Because rationally it don't make no sense, right? Rationally you're looking at that and you're like, that doesn't make any sense.

But it makes perfect sense if you're talking about bioenergetics and flow of energy and zigzagging and anti linear success.

00:52:50CALLER 1

Yep, yep. Well, that's the thing. Because it's, it always orients you forward. It requires that you need to keep moving whether you want to or not.

Because I see you there's subconsciously install these sort of mechanisms, like your thing of taking on as much responsibility as possible. I totally see that as the thing to just keep movement as, as the orienting picture. And like William, I guess I think I brought this up with you before, but it's like improvement makes straight roads, but the crooked roads without improvement are the roads of genius. But that's the thing that people completely miss is like the optimization is the straight road.

That's the one where you're rising really slowly and ultimately you're not even producing enough energy to get anything special from that. That's. That is, I think, ultimately the cancer metabolism, you're just going on a straight path to, to nothingness. Pretty much 100%.

00:53:39HOST

100%. When I was a lot more wily and rascally in my 20s, I would say pretty much the entire decade of my 20s, I had like a 98 or 99% leak in income. Not joke. That's how reckless I was.

In other words, I had to generate, no joke, if I generated a million bucks, for me to net 10k, I would have to fucking continually generate a million bucks just because my runoff and my burn rate and my spillage was so fucking high. But what people don't understand, that level of striving and having the capacity and firepower to even hit that target in the first place is what was driving me forward. It was a, it was a forward looking, kind of pyramid tipped approach to life. And you want to talk about walking away from the past and not looking back at yesterday, there's no better way to do that than oversetting your mark by several kilometers.

Like I just said.

00:54:46CALLER 1

Completely. Completely. You know, I actually wanted to ask you, like, what made you first get the mohawk? Like, when did you like, decide on that, bro?

00:54:55HOST

It was an accident. It was, it was an accident. My girl, I had some, some clippers and I used to shave my head and I had some clippers and I accidentally used one of those guards on the clippers and I up like a huge side of the shave and it kind of looked like a. It kind of looked like a quasi mohawk.

And I was like, it, this shit's gonna grow back. Let's just rock with it. And so she ended up just kind of tapering it and, and tempering it and making it look like a full mohawk because I up the cut and then I just ended up sticking with it.

00:55:32CALLER 1

Yeah. Did you, have you thought about it ever? Because to me, like, that's like literally the, the ultimate expression of your, of your life. It's just this orienting forward, the kind of warrior spirit.

The spear, like, it really is a spear.

00:55:46HOST

Yeah, it's like a shark fin, man. It's like coyote headed. It's true. It's true.

And so I just kind of rocked with it. And it's always just felt natural as to me. And yeah, bro, it all started as a mistake. That's the fucking hilarious thing about life is like, anything that's happened to me that I've ended up sticking with was an accident.

And I've always learned how to take accidents and mistakes and weave them into the overall structure and make it work. And I think that's a huge part of being a man, is learning how to incorporate mistakes and using those as leverage completely.

00:56:19CALLER 1

Like I, I for. When I first saw that idea with you, I really saw it in, in the same lens as like, what Georgie does is essentially just keep it moving, you know, it's like, I think, like, I think I've said this before. It's like you can fall upwards. That's ultimately what I see it as.

As with you, it's just the integrating and weaving is the thing that kind of outruns you because you build that structure that. What do you call it, survives after you. I was curious, like, I think that routine of a certain kind can be extremely beneficial, but in, in a certain way, it can actually completely destroy someone, I think. Do you think routine is something that a person should focus on?

00:56:59HOST

Yeah, as a foundation for sure. I mean, I, that's, that's the funny thing about my work is I have a very large. I've built a very large sanctuary around the concept of routine. I mean, I have, I have my circuit that I run.

You know what I'm like. I know no matter what happens to me, I'm always going to be eating good and I'm always going to be hitting the gym and getting stronger. And that's sort of, that's sort of my monastery. That's where I recharge.

That's where I rebuild. If anything goes wrong, I always have that routine to fall back on. But having that, having that foundation allows me a lot more leeway to live extreme on the periphery.

00:57:38CALLER 1

Totally. Totally, bro. I saw this, like, you know, I brought up David lynch to you. He has this sort of mindset on creativity where his day is so structured.

He eats the exact same meal, exact same time. He counts the cigarettes that he smokes. And he has this really structured thing. But his, his work is extremely obscure and avant garde.

And it's like he, he described it as. It's kind of making the, the structure to the point where the mental energy can go where it needs to go. And I totally see that. And it's like Rick Rubin talks about a similar idea.

And to me it's like, it's funny because you look at this idea that the ray has of energy and structure and you can see it really as just maximizing your, your physical structure. Either routine, either health is all just giving you something to lie on to, to let the, the brain and consciousness and what, whatever it is to, to really go towards the feet, you know?

00:58:38HOST

100. I eat the same boring meal every day for like 15, 20 years now. There's zero variance, zero deviants. Everyone's always asked me, they're like, how are you not bored just eating a plate of meat and eggs for every meal?

And I was like, because I don't view food as an orgasmic experience. To me it's just rocket fuel. It's always been that way. I eat, I, I, I eat to live.

Most people live to eat. You know what I'm saying? Like, I eat for the, so I can retaliate against life, so I can take that life force and retaliate. And it's, it's just, it's funny to me because people were always like, bro, you scarf your food down in like two minutes.

You're like, don't you ever enjoy a meal? And I'm like, not really. Like, show me anywhere in the wild. Show me one example in the wild where a predator animal go slow and fucking chews their food and really fogging savors it.

Show me where that's a factual thing. You know what I'm saying? Like you put a fucking, you put some fudgeing chicken hearts in a fucking dog bowl. You watch a rottweiler go to town.

You watch a rottweiler go to town. It's like for me, I'm scarfing my food in two minutes. I basically don't even chew my food. I inhale it and it's gone.

And I move on to the next thing.

00:59:56CALLER 1

Yeah, I actually remember because, because we were talking about that the kind of like prey eating versus predator eating. And I genuinely think like, like I, I see what you're saying 100 about this idea that people lie on it. But I, I think it integrates with the predator style a lot more than you think. Because again, like the people who understand how to use, the people who are really innovators throughout history are understanding that they just need some form of nutrients supplied to, to fuel their mental processes, to fuel their physical pro.

Like Nikola Tesla, he had I think like a diet of milk, beef and fruit. He made like a, a blend of that and he just drank it like in the lab throughout the day. And to me, it's like all these, all these guys are like, just drinking coffee constantly or having, having milk and coffee. And just this whole picture, I think, is, is kind of connected.

But I, I think, because, bro, I just, I really just want you to give up this idea that, like, you need to have this primal mindset. I mean, of course I see it, but, like, I think it's a lot more integrated towards the evolution of the evolutionary mindset. I don't know.

01:01:01HOST

Yeah, well, can you, can you enhance that idea for me? Because the lens that I see it through is that all animals, all prey animals graze throughout the day.

01:01:10CALLER 1

Yeah, completely. Well, you know, here's the thing. If, if we look at life as we want to maximize the intensity of existence, we want to really just expand our function, I think the way to do that is to constantly increase speed, constantly increase the, the rate of living. And I think that's kind of the thing of supplying meals.

Your energy is being expended so fast that you need to keep supplying. You can't just persist off of just like a carb. I mean, what do you call it? Like starch and low micronutrient.

Like, if you ultimately look at this metabolic picture, it's actually more expensive to eat. I mean, by expensive, I mean expensive energetically. You eat food and it makes you hungrier. It's.

It's ultimately like, I had a, I had a homie who wrote a article about this. It's like it's an aristocratic way of eating that it makes you hungrier and you need to keep eating. It's like that, to me, is really the big picture. Like, I think you.

We look at like the prey mentality. It's ultimately more toned down eating plants and of course, like fruit. It's about the availability. And we can, we can talk about that idea, of course, but, like, I don't think in the lens of, of energy and evolution, any of the availability ideas really mean as much, to be honest.

I really. It's like your mental, your mental function and physical function is ultimately guiding the ship.

01:02:31HOST

But so what, so what do you think the X factor is? How do you think I've gone this long? We're talking nearly two full decades of basically in a keto state. Yeah, because I don't do sugar.

Everyone told me I was going to crash and burn. What do you think is the X factor in that equation? How do you think I've lasted this long on just the high animal fat, intermittent fasting? Because I usually eat just two very large meals a day.

01:02:55CALLER 1

Yeah, yeah. Well, we talk about like, you know, I think we touched on like, your blood or your genetics. And that's, that's like a big thing that people who, like, follow the bioenergetic ideas are kind of weary of, which is like the genetic view of life.

01:03:08HOST

Because it's, because it's too mystical.

01:03:10CALLER 1

Well, yeah, and it's, it gives, it gives like, impression that everything in life is random and you have no control over it. When that's almost completely antithetical to this whole bioenergetic idea that, like, life is striving towards higher order. That's ultimately the whole point is just striving towards structure, energy and order and.

01:03:28HOST

Well, so, so, like, you know how we talk about, you know, how we talk about metaphors are, are 100, like, implicit forms of reality.

01:03:35CALLER 1

Yeah.

01:03:36HOST

In other, in other words, they describe reality better than reality itself. I've always enjoyed. It's been endearing to me to, to kind of flirt with the concept of hunger. I, I like being in a hungry state.

And I'm talking financially, I'm talking from spiritually. Like, I enjoy that feeling of deprivation and go and going after it when, you know, the saliva glands, the roof of your mouth. Like, I enjoy the intensity of feeling that hunger and drive. There's something primal in that, in that kind of primordial soup that is extremely empowering to me completely.

01:04:13CALLER 1

I think you can, you can actually innovate. I think that, like we talk about the catabolic state. I think, like, we say that's where all expression is. Bioenergetics, to me, is the way to protect under that, that condition.

Because I always think that it's important to, to recognize what is going to actually move you forward, what deterioration is going to move you forward or what deterioration is going to leave you debilitated. That's, I think, the big picture. Because, like, I think a person like you, you just have an intuitive understanding of, like, you know, that you're going to be able to sort it out. You know, you're going to be able to get back on, on your routine.

You know, if everything goes wrong, you're always going to have something to lie back on. And a lot of people do not understand this. And I think that's the big, the big picture. I think it's just a thing that's within you innately and, and ultimately it's like the innovator versus the, the.

I wouldn't even say consumer, but like, it's, it's really this, this view towards life and, and this view like the prolific and devourer is how William Blake described it. You know, I wrote that thread connecting with you. It's like the creator always sees the, the frontier as, as the point to head and the, the pro, the devourer. They always follow the, the innovator, the creator.

And to me it's a, it's an absolutely necessary process. Like, you've talked about it with like the idea where you're working on a project and there, there's always somebody at the front lines who is having people work, work for them, work with them, and they're all being brought forward. But someone always needs to be, you know, taking the shots and really deteriorating. So like, like Ray Pete, I, I see like people say, oh, he lost his teeth or whatnot or stuff like that.

It's like, well, he was experimenting, you know, he was actually moving things forward. And that to me is very, very bioenergetic.

01:06:02HOST

100%. So like, I view my life, I view myself as sort of like a Kevlar vest. Yeah, I, I am very much a bulletproof vest in my line of work. I absorb a lot of damage and I incur.

I incur a lot of stress and trauma on my body. But what I wanted to ask you is, do you see some element of nourishment through achievement?

01:06:27CALLER 1

100 I. I see like the mission is ultimately like we talk about, like, oh, it's a macronutrient. In, in many ways it legitimately gets you there. You know, it's like that, to me is, I think, the most important picture.

Like, it doesn't really matter necessarily what you're doing in life or what you're consuming, as long as it's moving life forward. You know, it's like that's the thing of just, I think, not being static and needing your routine or needing what you do in life. Needing anything to be a certain way, because needing anything to be a certain way is just static and that's not movement. So that to me is the big.

01:07:01HOST

Exactly, exactly. Like I love to. I love to play games of myself, to test myself, to test my fortitude. I love to throw wrenches in the machine and see what I'm capable of.

I have a very. I like to throw variables and I like to call audibles. Like, for example, there's times where I'll fast for 40 hours and I'll go try to lift my maximal weight. Now I've seen zero decrease in performance.

Zero. Literally zero. Playing those types of Games. Like, I've never walked into a gym and had it in the back of my head.

I didn't get eight hours of sleep. I'm malnourished. There's no way I can lift this weight. I've always been able to pick up the same weight.

No matter how stressed, fatigued, how up I've been, I've always been able to go in and perform at my best, always. And so I think it's fair to say that mentality and some of these pataphysical qualities are a lot more important components of the equation. But again, they're, they sort of get scoured from the sort of academic portfolio because they're not, they're deemed as too mystical.

01:08:09CALLER 1

Completely.

01:08:10HOST

Right. They're deemed as too mystical. There's no way to really quantify what the. Is going on there.

How does a motherfucker who hasn't drinking water in 24 hours and is objectively dehydrated, still lifting maximal weight and still just as strong as he was when he was hydrated.

01:08:25CALLER 1

No, there's nothing on paper that can, that can prove that. And like, you look at people who live to like 100, 120, and we, we all know that they're always, they're always smoking, they're always drinking soda, they're always, they're always eating ice cream. It's just all these things. I think ultimately just, it's like the whole thing of vitality is, I think, innate to a person.

And I think it's 100 inherited. And to say that it's, it's not genetic is, is a common thing with the, the Pete perspective. But ultimately, I think the bioenergetic state of, of life is what informs the genetic state. You know, it's like there is a bit of structure that forms out of that.

I mean, a hundred percent we see it with like, look at dogs. Like you're telling me that we can't breed dogs and we can't breed humans to, to select for certain traits or whatnot. Like you, you can 100% have selective breeding. Like that's, that's what.

Probably no BAP on here. Like that's what FAP spoke is about.

01:09:25HOST

And 100.

01:09:27CALLER 1

I think that fills a lot of holes.

01:09:28HOST

But 100, that's why my girl's five nine. Because I wanted, because I wanted guaranteed tall sons.

01:09:34CALLER 1

Yeah.

01:09:35HOST

You know what I'm saying? Like, I look at all that 100. So is it fair to say, is it fair to say that if you stockpile and load up on A ton of health and winning attributes and you don't spend it and you don't use it. Is it fair to say that is an active form of.

Of deterioration?

01:09:59CALLER 1

I think so. I mean I think anything that. That's keeping you away from a euphoric state which I think is ultimately when you're. You're in movement, when you're in flow is going to degenerate you.

I mean ultimately like you. You see any. Anyone who's at the top. Anyone who sustained any sort of wealth and.

And tries to get out of it. It's like the thing of retiring is expiring like we talked about earlier. It's absolutely always going to topple over because you need the energy flowing through the system to maintain the structure that's ultimately the whole picture.

01:10:30HOST

100. That's why I've always said you descend your way to the throne in life.

01:10:34CALLER 1

Yeah.

01:10:35HOST

Don't understand this like that you sometimes to succeed and get to the top you go down. Down is the way up in a lot of cases. And people think that ascension, straight propulsion and ascension to the top is the way to go. And it's like no brother.

Like sometimes the way forward is actually down not up. Which means. Which means that you're actually going in that deteriorized catabolic state. And then you rebound from it and it's just.

Dude, it's a push pulley mechanism. Everything is yin and yang. Which is why these health obsessed freaks, these health nuts that won't let themselves fudgeing get any microplastics that are maxing the fuck on their health. I think those guys are objectively very unhealthy after a certain point completely.

01:11:23CALLER 1

And you notice actually it's something I found really striking is that all of these health maxers like not. I don't really know any that are like creative. Like I don't really know any who are like.

01:11:33HOST

Exactly.

01:11:34CALLER 1

They're kind of just like helping out and not really changing. That to me is just like kind of the. The primitive life form. And.

And I don't think that was ever the point. I don't think it ever will be. And it's. It's funny to me because like it's ingenious, isn't it?

Yeah. It's.

01:11:52HOST

It's ingenious what they've done because they're. What they're trying. They're trying to fool nature and they're trying to essentially say look I don't even have to live. I don't have to put anything at stake.

Stake. I don't have to take risks in life. If I just get the right molecules and curate the perfect nutritional profile, I can achieve what everyone's trying to achieve. And it's like that.

That's what, that's exactly what I'm talking about. That's not how it works. Like, you act. There actually does have to be a blood investment in some kind of project or artwork.

That's what men are designed to do. Men are designed to create in the physical world. And you're 100% correct. These motherfuckers that are chopping papayas in the Caribbean.

In the Caribbean, barefoot, maxing and shit, I don't see them fucking really producing anything.

01:12:38CALLER 1

Yeah, no.

01:12:39HOST

Or pushing. Or pushing themselves or spending their health and then regenerating. Because that's basically my model, right. I'm a healthy guy.

I spend my health into the dirt. I deplete everything. And then I recharge and I deplete it again. And then I recharge and I deplete it again.

It's the whole kill, heal, heal method.

01:12:59CALLER 1

Yeah. And there's always a context. Right. You know, because that's, that's.

I think something that probably people have a hard time understanding is that you can't just fully extend yourself if you don't have any reason to. And I. I actually think you fill several voids that are like, just really missing in modern society today. Predict.

Particularly like, I think opposing stall tactics and risk avoidance and diffusion of personal responsibility. Like, I think what you and I both ultimately see is that the modern environment is slow and it was made this way artificially, on purpose to impair like the generation of more life. And this is the whole bioenergetic picture. Like, the most destructive things are the ones that are, you know, just.

Just tolerable. You know, they don't get bad enough. And like, you need to be left with no option. You know, that's really what I see because that's, that's what happened to me just unconsciously.

But like, I think, like when you have this thing where you just. You find your edge, like, it's not something you plan out, it's intuition. Like you just keep moving and sometimes you need to risk it all to do that. And, and I think we.

What we both focus on is keeping that spirit alive. Because again, sometimes it does not get bad enough, but you can, you can kind of self impose it. And I think that's what you really, really shine with, is identifying how you can do that and where it's Being in where it's being blocked, you know?

01:14:20HOST

Exactly. It's like, as a man in the modern world, the realm that we live in doesn't really offer these sort of gratuitous gauntlets anymore. So it's like, as a man, you have to create your own quagmires and work your way out of them. You know what I mean?

And that's what I'm talking about when I say taking on the biggest challenges and going into these labyrinths and. And navigating them successfully. That ultimately those experience. That's the beauty of being a man, is like your.

Your pitfalls, the mistakes, the damage that you've taken all accumulates and stacks into your overall report card. Like, those experiences do not go away, and they're not detrimental. They all sort of are. Are handcrafting that aura.

And so it's like as much exposure to life and as much exposure to. To everything that life has to offer is the best way to craft an aura. There's no. There's no way of gaming it.

You can't pretend to have a sturdy handshake. You can't take voice classes to make your voice deeper. You know what I'm saying? It's like, that's bro.

That's why charisma is the holy grail to life. And what people don't understand about charisma is charisma, fundamentally is exactly what we're talking about. It is the totality of your being. It's the combination, the panoply of every single thing in your life that's ever happened to you all plays a part in your overall charisma.

It's the one thing in life you cannot fake. It's in your vocal tone. It's in the way you walk. It's in your gait.

It's in the way you step, it's in the way you move. It's in the way you blink. The charisma is embedded in there. And the only way to develop that charisma is to live a harsh, rough life.

It's the only way. There's no way around it. And like I said, you cannot fake it. It's in the inflection.

It's in the inflection points in your voice, in your vocal tone. Everybody knows it. What they see it when they see it. Everyone knows charisma when they see it because it's visceral.

You know what I mean? And so it's like a lot of these guys are actively working against their own charisma by stockpiling and health maxing and forgetting to go out and live life completely.

01:16:46CALLER 1

I. I had a tweet. I. I said something.

I don't remember exactly. It was like, I really think the only force in. In you and Brute, the force in the moniker is the force of nature. It's.

It's really forcing life to be natural. Where you get this state where everything is. Is effortlessly coming to you like that, to me is I think, really the idea that you just. There's nothing needs to be a certain way.

It's. That is the complete flow. And I think that's where the eastern. And then the.

The idea of building that flow and complexifying it is the bioenergetic idea of like, you know, the spiral upwards, ultimately 100. You know, I actually had a question. I was thinking, do you think or do you see this way of life that you kind of promote going mainstream ever? Do you think that's possible or is it, like even a goal?

01:17:38HOST

No.

01:17:38CALLER 1

Yeah.

01:17:40HOST

No, but I'll never change. I'll never, ever start to water down my message that or dilute anything to get a certain reaction. I mean, look, ultimately, nothing I say is prescription. This is what don't understand.

And I do want to reiterate this. My. My Twitter is an open diary to myself. I tweet to myself.

I flesh out my thoughts in just an open forum. If people contribute or whatever, or make addendums, fantastic. But I'm not here whatsoever to tell anybody how to fucking live. I'm here to share my experience, strength and hope and wisdom, and if anybody gets anything out of it, great.

But other than that, I am not here to curate or curate any kind of tribe or audience whatsoever.

01:18:23CALLER 1

Yeah, completely. I think that's the point of it.

01:18:25HOST

I will never. That's why I don't think I'll ever go mainstream, because I'm never going to dilute my message. And I know my message is over the heads of most people because I'm really talking to the 1%. I'm not interested.

You know, there's. There's accounts on here that do a great job of speaking to the average man. And those accounts are holistic and they're wholesome, and people need that. Society needs that to function.

Those people are the staple. They're the linchpin of society. I respect the. Out of those accounts.

I ain't talking to those. I'm talking to the greats. I'm talking to the people who are striving for greatness and who want to be the outliers. It's the only people I'm interested in talking to.

I'm not interested in talking to the average man. And I know, I know the average man listens to these shows because it's entertainment. You know what I mean? It's like Phantom of the Opera and that's fine, but I'm not.

That's why I'll never go mainstream, because I ain't talking to the average. Not interested in that.

01:19:23CALLER 1

Yeah. And I, I remember we kind of talked about that. Like, so much of it, I, I really think is missed. Like, because to me, this whole energy flow idea is like really what you're getting at building upon.

And I just, I don't think many people can intuit that. And I don't, I don't know if they, they ever will. But like, to me, like, I personally 100 see what you're building. I see it as, as a philosophy.

I, I do see you as like a philosopher. And it's like, funny to say that, but, you know, like, these ancient classifications just don't really exist anymore. Because it's funny because, like, guys will talk about, oh, the west is falling. Like, you Notice that like 90 of complaints just come from the sidelines.

And I found it interesting. Like, you look at any innovator of our time, anyone pushing the envelope, I always see it as someone who just keeps moving and just putting their message out there and it doesn't necessarily even matter what happens to it, but it ends up most of the time getting reiterated by others. Eventually, you know, eventually it gets reposted, it gets rehashed. Doesn't necessarily even matter if the creator was credited, just as long as their work gets spread.

Just as long as it integrates into life, which obviously in the past is only through like writing and public speaking. And now I see this in the form of audio and video, you know, like we're doing fucking right now. Like, it's like, it's the way of the time. You know, there's just, there's so many smart guys on Twitter, but you just look at any writer or anyone on here, it's just like you won't get anywhere without video and audio.

And, And I absolutely think that's why you're so effective. Because writing and, you know, just kind of this structured view of life of sort of a scientific understanding. Like you, you said something to me. You're like, we live in a post fact world.

And that like, that kind of stuck with me because ultimately it's like this idea that the proof is just in life itself. There's no paper that can tell you. There's no data that can tell you what life is because. Because it's just it.

Life outruns any static interpretation. And like.

01:21:17HOST

Exactly.

01:21:17CALLER 1

I absolutely see why you're so effective is because you're just, you're running gun. Just go right now. Like just right now, just go. And it's like if you're overflowing with energy, a system just starts to form naturally.

You know, you don't really need to think too much about how the message gets out. Like it's just, you're not really consciously cultivating anything 100 or like trying to make it perfect, you know, because perfect. Trying to optimize online. Like we like I keep saying this, it's just, it literally gets in the way of innovation.

Like it's just so powerful to see the development of your entire way of interacting with the world because it's just, you're bringing it forward yourself. And to me there's so much in that. And I think that's just what's been completely missing like in our time.

01:21:56HOST

Yeah, it's missing. It's a post fact world. And what I mean by that is, is that we live in a society now where you can't just tell facts. It's too boring.

No one has the attention span. No one gives a. About your bullet point this. No one gives a fuck about facts anymore.

If you want to, if you want to share facts, you have to weave them into an interesting story. And there's a lot of accounts on Twitter that I see that I actually like and I think they could pop off but they're missing that post fact element because they're just giving you bullet point facts and everyone's bored to tears with that. No one gives a about facts anymore. It's extremely boring.

Everyone has access to Google. We can all look up and curate and find our own facts and run it through a sieve. Right. But the guy who can weave it into a story is the guy who's winning in 2024.

01:22:48CALLER 1

Exactly. Exactly. Because it's like there's always a picture to paint and when, when that's not there, you're essentially looking at life in, in a isolation. And nothing can be looked at in isolation.

It's like it's holistic system.

01:23:02HOST

It's why I also think if you're an anonymous, like I see these anonymous accounts, I don't have, I don't have any beef with anonymous accounts at all. I, I do understand it but one of the, one of the cringiest things is like when a non account talk about all the pussy that they get and all the money they make and all the girls, it's like, bro, you don't understand. As an anonymous account, those topics should be completely off limits. I don't know what you look like.

I've never heard your voice. No one knows what the. Who the you really are. And you're talking about all the women you get.

Get the out of here. Like, who are you fooling? You know what I mean? And it's like it's one of these things in life where I want to make this clear.

You never, you can never show off who you are through the direct trait itself. For example, you're never going to prove to anybody that you're intelligent by reciting facts. You could literally learn the fucking Declaration of Independence by heart. You could recite that on stage behind a pulpit.

No one's going to think you're intelligent. You know how you, you know how you really prove intelligence? You know how you show women you're intelligent? You know how you show the world?

Your intelligence is through wit. It's through being witty. Witty, witty are always going to have a better presentation of high intelligence. And it's like that with every quality and trait in life, you can never ever do it directly.

You always show who you really are through a different means, through a different mode.

01:24:33CALLER 1

Completely. Completely. You know, I noticed it's like most things in life, I think maybe even all things in life, you just, you get by proxy. You get by proxy of.

There's not really a word to put it into perspective, you know, without sounding all like woo, woo. But it's legitimately. Your energetic field is what draws things into life. Like ultimately, I think you can see it at the cellular level where you see these different electrolytes and substances going back and forth between inside and out of the cell.

And that I think is what, what stimulates life. It's this electrical view of the universe. And it's just that to me is the thing where life is just generating and nothing is static. And it always gets back to that, that decentralized picture versus this, you know, the structured centralized view.

01:25:20HOST

100. It's all oblique. Everything is oblique to the actual thing itself. It's.

It's for the same reason. It's for the same reason that it's like, it's kind of like this too. If you want to prove toughness, you don't really become an MMA fighter. You don't, you don't become an MMA fighter.

There's a reason why gladiators were peasants. They were considered low class dregs and peasants because we all kind of know subconsciously that true toughness and true strength means never having to exert it in the first place.

01:25:59CALLER 1

Yeah.

01:26:01HOST

You know what I mean? Like the real, a real tough, a true tough never gets into a physical scuffle in the first place. Doesn't have to.

01:26:13CALLER 1

I, I think that's something interesting like, because Rey had this idea that I'm still trying to piece together of like the future of our evolution is, is. I think he said it's, it's infantile and it's, and it's actually feminine. He said something like that. And it was, it was interesting to me because I think his whole point was like really the, the consciousness is, is ultimately the thing that we see evolving and that's where you see, you know, the bigger brains and, and whatnot.

And ultimately just this higher energy state. And it was funny because I remember on a spaces a little bit back, you were, I forget what you said. Oh no, you were like, you think God is a female and a lot of people are up in arms about that. But, but if I understood correctly, it seems like what you were trying to say was just that God is ultimately a giving force.

And, and there's always masculine and feminine forces in nature and that kind of stimulates things like am I getting that correct or 100.

01:27:10HOST

It's exactly what I was saying. Yeah, they went right over the Midwit fucking. Fucking dome piece. I'm not surprised.

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised whatsoever. It was an egregious, it was an egregious metaphor, but it drove the fucking point home.

01:27:27CALLER 1

Yeah. Yeah. I think like, I think about William Blake so much because I just, I see so many parallels with that. Like, I think I said like, Blake was a Christian, but he viewed imagination as God and he sort of like flew in the face of the Christian practices.

So I like, I wanted to talk about like listening to your nature. You said something along the lines of it doesn't matter if Christ wants, if Christ himself doesn't want you to carry out the mission, you do it anyway because you have an obligation. And I think that was a misnomer. I think you actually meant like to me, I think God wants you.

God wants what you want, truly deep down, and your own spirit. And that's what I think Blake saw. And you had a quote. It was like, primal desires are virtuous, not sinful.

Denial of the beast. Within is pretend, pretend is sin. And I think that's, that's what encapsulates it since I think like our intuition and nature is the guide. To me, that's the extension of God into man.

Exactly.

01:28:25HOST

It's kind of like what I just said the other day about these, these young cats on Twitter are seriously trying on masculinity as a, as a costume. It's like a wardrobe for them. They're. They're trying on these different garments and seeing what works.

But it's like I just said, if you have a true body of work and you're objectively the guy, all you need to do is put out your artwork and you're going to express all those same high status qualities and attributes just through the expression of your work itself. And that's the better way, that's the better way to do it. It's like a, a can hear you talk for two hours on a show and they're gonna, they're gonna know if you're intelligent, they're gonna know if you get women, they're gonna know if you're rich. They're gonna, they're gonna be able to easily, easily viscerally apprehend a better picture of who you really are.

You never have to say, you don't have to get on here and fucking tell everyone that you fucking get women. Like, just start talking and dropping work and people will know instantaneously if you're the guy or not. Yeah, but that's why these won't do a spaces. That's why these don't do voice notes is why they don't do videos, because they're hiding completely.

Yeah, they know. They know you can't fake this up here on the stage.

01:29:41CALLER 1

That, that brings me into something else I like. What do you think about the importance of self expression in early youth, particularly either like physical endeavors like athletics or, or just the pursuit of natural interest in general? Like, how important do you think early development plays for, like, you know, the older, I mean, the, the how your life pans out?

01:30:01HOST

I think it's extremely important. I think it starts at the local level. I think, I think fame in general is largely unnatural. And I think that as a youngster you need to find an arena where you can compete in where you are notably better than everybody else, because that's the fastest way to draw in that kind of gravitational pull where opportunities open up to you.

I used the example before. When I was in my 20s, any gym that I walked into, I was the strongest guy there. Pound for pound by far. So I'd walk into a commercial gym and I'm snatching 300 pounds with metal plates in a commercial gym.

No one's ever seen anybody lift that kind of weight at my size. And you bet your ass it's a spectacle. So then you just get known, you understand, you're sort of like, you're creating a crater, you're creating a footprint, you're leaving your fingerprints all over the suite. And so when you leave those environments, you're leaving impressions on people.

So at the local level, like local within your own community, I do think guys need to find a forum where they can find some sort of arena of importance where you're just noticeably and notably better than everybody else. And I do find that to be a very powerful springboard in life in general. The opportunities that opened to me when I was younger just from being super athletic and strong were outrageous. The kind of conversations that would open would stick, talk to me, I'd make quick friends.

I'd find my way into high up circles just from being a athlete was insane. And then deal flow would happen, opportunities, jobs would be given to me. Odd deals like that. And you just, you capture it and seize the momentum and you ride the wave.

01:31:49CALLER 1

Yeah, completely.

01:31:50HOST

I like, I think, I think competition, competition is super important when you're younger.

01:31:55CALLER 1

Yeah, I mean I see that. It's one of the biggest ones.

01:31:59HOST

Yeah. 100. It's like at your local level, if you walk out in public and you walk into a restaurant and no one even knows who you are, you're, you're up in life big time. Because in my local community, when I walk out in public, I'm like the mayor. I got people shaking my hands on every street corner.

Everyone knows who I am in my area. If I walk into a coffee shop, if I walk into a restaurant, I got five or 10 people that are greeting me right away. And if you don't think that creates a upward spiral of momentum and creativity and inspiration, you're insane. It's the best way to go about life.

You got to get out there, you got to get active, you got to make your face known in your local community. You got people have to know who the you are.

01:32:42CALLER 1

Yeah, I like, I think it was customado, like Mike Tyson's trainer said, something along the lines of competence is what builds the confidence. Like I, because I really see guys getting at it from like the backwards lens thinking that you need to be confident to get somewhere. I couldn't think that's further from the reality, like again, it goes back to that run and gun. You just kind of go with what you have right now and that's, that's what ends up getting you into the places that you've been striving for the whole time.

01:33:09HOST

I think, dude, there's no more powerful notion than just working with what you got in front of you. It's so powerful. If you're a fat piece of, and you've let yourself get completely out of shape and you hate yourself and you hate your life, you still have a starting point right now. You're not going back, you're never going to get it back.

You can't go back to yesterday. You can't undo all the damage. But you do have cards and you do have a hand that you can play right now. You can take that first step any time you want.

You have something to work with all the time. And that's the real alchemical process, that's the real magic. By the way,

01:33:49CALLER 1

how important, like do you find your environment to your process? Like, because it seems like you're for the most part on the west coast and like warm, sunny places. Do you find that important?

01:34:00HOST

I do. I think environment's a little bit overrated. I'm the same. No matter what environment I'm in, I'm the same guy.

Things change, people, people change, same birds, different feathers. But I do think the environment thing is, is, is definitely a little bit overrated. I mean, to a degree. I've definitely curated my life to stay away from normies and riff raff and scum as much as I can.

And I think that's been a huge superpower, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't, I don't put myself in environments where I'm ever going to get into a bar fight. Like, I just, I don't hang around stupidity. I hang around upper class people.

And I think that's 100 been a huge competitive advantage. Even when I was broke and I lived in shitty areas, I would just drive the extra 10 minutes and go to a nice spot. And I think that's definitely. So from an environmental perspective on that, I think that's huge.

But as far as like where I am, where my, where I'm living, the container that I'm living in, I don't give a if I'm sleeping on the castle steps or a futon bed. I'm still me. I'm still me. You know what I'm saying?

And I think, I think homeless, homeless people is a lot of false Advertising in a way, in the sense that I think people think if they lose everything pursuing their dreams, that you become some schizoed out paranoid freak who's mumbling to themselves, you know, behind a dumpster. That's not how it works. As a man. As a man, you.

You're still you. I'm always still me. No matter what happens, it just doesn't go anywhere. So it's like you.

Once you understand that, you can actually put up a lot more shots and take more risks and really go for it in life.

01:35:50CALLER 1

Yeah. You know, I think like Miyamoto Musashi, if you know about him, like the, the Book of Five Rings really is like the idea of just this warrior spirit that you just, you can work with any tool and like that is the place to be. Because like, I think this idea that you have of just using anything and everything at your disposal, just maximizing the use of your environment no matter where you are, really just expending everything to get more back. I absolutely see this in the same lens that I see metabolism.

Like, it's just running through things and just understanding. Exactly. No tool is meant to be kept forever.

01:36:24HOST

Exactly. It's like you might not have any money, but you do have an iPhone. It's like that's something huge to work with right there. That's a, that's a.

That's a transmutable thing. And it's like that's your magic carpet. Sometimes you got. Just got to start there, but it's like you always have something huge to work with in front of you.

You just got to be able to mold the clay. You got to be a creator. You got to maximize your environment and maximize the hand that you currently have. Because you ain't getting yesterday back.

And everybody knows this, but everyone's just wishing to get yesterday back and it ain't coming. I hate to spoil the party, but yesterday ain't coming back. All you can do is take the first step today.

01:37:03CALLER 1

Destroy the past. Yeah. You know, it's funny. It's like if the iPhone is.

Is the modern sword, you know, like I, I know you kind of like really work on your phone mainly is what I. What you've said. But like, to me, it's just, it's like so parallel to the warrior of like, you know, just kind of working with his. His tool.

And to me, it's like just an interesting thing. Like I, I also was thinking like you say. I know you say you don't read much, but you clearly are well versed in a Lot of high level ideas and understand language. So like, do you think it's important for a guy to ever study or educate themselves early on or do you think it just comes from experience in the arena?

01:37:46HOST

I do, I do. I think, I think reading is important. I've been gifted in many ways. Like, to be very, very frank with you, I genuinely don't think I've ever finished a book cover to cover.

Maybe the only one I've ever finished is the Road by Cormac McCarthy. That was a good book and it was a short read. So I did, I think I went cover to cover on that. But I don't think I've ever read a book fully cover to cover.

I skim. I, I said this on a last basis. I've always assumed if I'm reading a paper, if I'm reading an academic paper from, if I'm reading a journal, if I'm reading any kind of pamphlet or any kind of literature, I go through it one time. And if I reach a resistance point where I don't have comprehension or I don't really understand what I read, I refuse to go back.

Talking about burning the past. This is on a micro level. I refuse to go back and reread it again because I just assume, I trust the systems, I trust my unconscious mind, that if I hit that resistance point, number one, I probably wasn't ready to absorb that information at this particular time. Or number two, it was just useless information.

And my, my fucking unconscious mind is so genius that it knows that I don't. That's irrelevant. So I keep moving. And the things that I read that I instantaneously comprehend, I'm like, okay, that was a fucking blurb of information that my unconscious mind needs to synthesize and digest.

I don't go back, I don't go back. I don't go back and reword. I don't go back to a problem and try to crack it. I keep moving forward.

Yeah, I've always, and I've always been that way. And honestly I think that's how you resurrect true talent.

01:39:22CALLER 1

That's, that's interesting because I had this discussion with it with a few guys because I have just become so anti discipline and just intuition is, is discipline to me because I think that's what really gets you. The energy to move forward on something. Discipline just happens. Like that's, that's my whole thesis of discipline and cultivating it is really just getting in the way.

But like they're 100, their hundred percent is something to like a consistent iteration on something and kind of cracking away at something and putting the reps in and just honing yourself in like a certain lift or honing yourself in a certain process or rereading something until you can crystallize the knowledge. And I was trying to put that together because like someone like Ray Pete, who took this like intuitive view of life, I think a hundred percent when, when he has oriented himself towards furthering reality, you can kind of understand what can be, you know, worked with and repeated and, and routinized. Because that to me, like I had a tweet, like consistent iteration is dopaminergic. Like, you know, pretty much supporting drive and energy and then repetitive routine is, is really, that's like the serotonergic, just mindless state.

And that was, that was something interesting to me because I, I tend to go back on certain things just to really, you know, crystallize my knowledge and, and I think it's kind of necessary for me too, just talking about like the, the higher level ideas. So I don't know.

01:40:48HOST

Yeah, to polish it. Yeah, to polish it is, is. I understand that completely.

01:40:53CALLER 1

Yeah.

01:40:53HOST

But I do, I, I do think it's an important concept. I've never heard anybody really discuss it, but this idea of remembering bits and pieces of things and going through life and there's memories that you hold on to and they're, they're sort of confusing, they're kind of flustering because you're just like, why did I remember that one fragment of a situation? And it's because your body genuinely will hold on to only important things your body does not. Your mind does not want to store information that's not a vital use to it.

And so running with that theory, if I remember bits and pieces of a subject or a topic, I always assume whatever remnants I'm capturing is because it was, I was, I was basically sucking the marrow from the bone and I was getting down to like the crux of what I needed to know in that particular instance. And then, and then what's interesting about that is a lot of those fragmented memories will definitely make themselves into like the mosaic and the tapestry of a larger thing in the future. But you got to keep living to kind of complete, complete the jigsaw puzzle. You know, it's a jigsaw puzzle.

Like a lot of these memories are totally fragmented, but you'll, you'll live or you'll carry out a different experience and then you'll be like, oh, that was the border piece that I was missing on the end of that puzzle. Now it makes sense. And so it's like you gotta keep living to reach the epiphanies and the revelations or they never come. And that's why people get confusion.

And I think that's why people spin their wheels in the mud, trying to go back and constantly fucking polish and. And go back to material and literature that's not readily accepted. Like, I know this is true because even when I watch movies, which is a different medium, I'll have a completely different interpretation and understanding of concepts in a movie five years later. In retrospect, it's like I watched an entirely different movie because I have an entirely different plethora of experiences that I'm using to tap into that.

And I think reading is a. Is reading is one of those interesting things where, especially if you're reading high literature and you're reading stuff that's like. That's advanced and a little bit more technical and a little bit over your head, especially like in the. In the terminology and the vocabulary and the lexicons, a little difficult for you.

It's one of those things where reading. You have to have a broad amount of life experience when you go into some of these reading journeys, because you can pull a lot more from it. Drawing from your experience. That's what's interesting about reading.

It's a companionship between you and the author. And so the more personal experience you have to draw from, the more you can glean from the literature itself. It's like you can go read Moby Dick right now. And Moby Dick is one of those books that's so lofty and eggheaded that you actually need a tremendous amount of life experience just to understand what the.

Is going on in the first 30 pages. And most people get eliminated. Most people are eliminated in the first 30 pages of these types of books because they just simply don't. They're not ready.

You understand what I'm saying?

01:44:06CALLER 1

Yeah, no, completely. I like. I think there's like a sort of assimilation that happens unconsciously. And, and that's to me, like this idea like, you know, you're saying this eclectic understanding, that's kind of what puts it together.

Like these, these conscious. Our unconscious processes are really the. The big synthesizer. Like, that's why, bro, people make this joke of like, you don't need to read Nietzsche.

You can just live and you can just intuit Nietzsche and you don't need to read a single one of his books. And it's a hundred percent true. Like, you can just get through like the brief idea and you're good, you're good. You just keep living.

Like, that's, that's what you have. You're Nietzsche now. Like, it's like, it's so funny to me because like, yeah, a lot of the reading and stuff like that, it kind of gets in the way sometimes. That's, that's.

I think this like post fact world thing that you're talking about.

01:44:52HOST

100. The most interesting part about my Twitter. Twitter journey, hands down, has been the DMS that I get from academics that will link me a passage from a book. And they'll be like, dude, they'll be like, do you know who this philosopher is?

Or like there's so many parallels. And every time I'm like, they probably think I'm capping. They probably think I've read this guy. I have no idea who the you're talking about.

I just lived life and I arrived at the same conclusion as this guy. Yeah, it happens to me all the time. Like, I accidentally stumble upon these insights that are so parallel to all the greats, and it's just through living.

01:45:35CALLER 1

Yeah, bro, because I know we talked about the other few things too, but it's like, I think it's. So this guy will be like, oh,

01:45:42HOST

you read Soap and Hour. And I'm like, brother, I actually didn't. I have no idea what the you're talking about.

01:45:49CALLER 1

It's so funny to me because just what a philosopher gets at is always what's intuition to them. The philosopher always just gets at the intuition. And like, that's why, you see, I think creativity is ultimately like this thing where a lot of the great creatives share many of the same practices because it's just they. It comes out naturally.

And that's to me why this idea of order in reality is. Is kind of a big thing of just objectivity. There's objectivity in all things and just through a different process and well, life circumstance.

01:46:24HOST

But. And so like, most of these concepts are very elusive to you if you just read. And that. I guess that's my point is there's a certain amount of life experience.

Dude, I'm not kidding. There's been concepts, there's been reading concepts that have been very difficult for me to tackle in the past. There might have been a line that was written in a way where I'm just like, I don't really understand what this guy's fucking saying. And then I'll go live five years and I'll come across that same blurb five years later and now it's a breeze.

It. It clicks instantaneously. I'm like, I completely understand what that passage meant.

01:47:00CALLER 1

Yep.

01:47:01HOST

You know what I mean? So it's like that whole. It's just interesting how it all ties into everything. I've always been saying everything constellates from that whole concept of burning the past and letting it.

Letting it die. Because everything that needs to be elucidated is going to come. Is going to come your way when you're ready.

01:47:17CALLER 1

Completely. Completely. It's. It metabolizes itself.

That's. That's really what I see.

01:47:21HOST

You know, some power. It's some powerful. Dude, it's a powerful way to live. It's like when you're.

When you're stumbling at a problem that you just can't crack or tackle. It's like, buddy, you need to go inject yourself and immerse yourself in the world. Get some more stripes on your belt and then come back to it. And I promise you it's going to be a lot easier.

01:47:41CALLER 1

Absolutely. Yeah.

01:47:43HOST

It's like some. You know what I'm saying? People get to a wall in life and they think that they have to find a bulldozer or a tool that's going to bore through the wall. And it's like, that's not how it works.

Sometimes you actually got to go back a couple steps into the mud where there's clarity, there's clarity in the dirt. And once you get that clarity, you go back to the wall and you understand that all you had to do was high step it. You never had. You never actually had to break through it.

01:48:10CALLER 1

Yeah. Yeah. Honestly. Let's see.

I had one more thing I was thinking about. So if money isn't really an endpoint, which. Which I kind of think we talked about how it's more just a tool or just like a product of energy. What do you think the main point of having money in today's time and is.

I think people win without it.

01:48:30HOST

No. So I just look at money as sort of like the encrusted jewel in the skull. It. Like you're just putting a ruby or a fucking topaz or a sapphire in the skull.

It's like, it's not. Money is a lot less utilitarian than people think. It's not as sexy as you fucking. Like.

People think it's incredible to be just flowing in fucking riches like Scrooge McDuck. It's honestly not how it fucking works. It doesn't change that much. Food still tastes the same.

No matter how rich you are, music still fucking sounds just as good. Whether you're fucking sleeping under a fucking dumpster or in a baronial castle in fucking Spain. It's the same fucking thing. And so it's like there's only a couple sexes, the same whether you're rich or not.

Like all these main biological functions and processes that bring us pleasure, they're the fucking same. They're not enhanced. And I think that's a huge myth. A lot of people have this myth in their head that if they get a ton of money, somehow every sensation in life is totally heightened.

Food is gonna just magically taste a hundred times better. Sex is gonna feel better. Music somehow is. The fucking sonic blast from the music somehow is gonna like, ring in your ears differently.

It's not the fucking case whatsoever. So what I look at money as. As a. As a man, I look at it as the last step.

I don't think money's the first step. Everyone says get rich first, then figure everything else later. It's the opposite. As a man, you want to get the life experience, understand social dynamics, become a social wizard, lean into your talent.

Money is the capstone. It's the final piece of the equation. And once you are the type of man you want to be, then you can put the dressing on top of it, which is money, and having a lot of money. The true function of it, believe it or not, is just kind of that last little 1% optimization of that aura.

Yes, it does give you some more fucking swagger and pep in your step when you have. When you have cake in the bank, no doubt about it, you're going to move a little bit differently. There's definitely something it does to your aura. You're going to fucking have some more confidence knowing that you got millions of dollars for sure.

But people don't understand. That's a micro optimization. Being rich is a micro optimization. It doesn't add nearly as much to the stack as you think.

It's the polish. It's the polish. It's the final step. Go out there, become the kind of man you want to be, and then figure out how to put money on top of it.

It ain't the other way around, because we all know the meme and the archetype very well of the rich nerd. The guy who got rich first and now has a very clumsy way of dealing with life and has zero clue how to manage it.

01:51:31CALLER 1

I'm interested in what you.

01:51:32HOST

Because you had, ironically. Ironically, what I just said is million dollar Advice. No pun. No.

No pun intended.

01:51:39CALLER 1

Yeah, no, bro, because that, that made me think. Because I remember you said something about you need to win by the rules of society. You need to. You need to soar to the heights of that.

Then you can denounce everything. So to me, that's like kind of like the. The, you know, like Jack Dorsey, like, type making money and then becoming all like, you know, anti materialist. And to me, I don't really even think that's a good philosophy to take.

But what, like, where's your thought with that?

01:52:06HOST

So, bro, that's another secret, and I'll lay it out here right now. And I shouldn't because it's a. It's part of the. Part of the secret game.

But here's the deal, and I'll share this with you guys. It's one of the biggest secrets of life is you can only criticize something when you are it yourself. In other words, because I'm a strong athletic, I can talk about the gym and looks maxing all day long because I already got it. I'm already the guy.

So I can talk about this and it's not going to come off. But if you're a fat who's out of shape and you're porky and you've never had any kind of athleticism or strength, good luck marketing anti gym takes good luck, buddy, because that shit's going nowhere. And I see a lot of people doing that on Twitter. I see a lot of people who are not the thing itself.

You can only criticize the thing itself if you are the thing. You know what I mean? It kind of goes back to that concept of you got to. If you want to change the world, you got to become what you hate.

A lot of people don't understand that. But, like, if you actually want to dismantle a philosophy or crumble a system, you have to become the thing you hate first, and then you can destroy it completely.

01:53:28CALLER 1

Yeah, I. I actually was trying to put something together with this, but I see.

01:53:32HOST

I. Bro, I see out of shape. I see out of shape. Doe dough bread talking about fitness and looks maxing.

And I'm like, brother, you don't have a platform or a pulpit to be talking like that. Like, go, go fucking become a national champion. Go get elite numbers in your field and then we can have a conversation.

01:53:54CALLER 1

Yeah, no, exactly. Like, I see, like the critiques of society. Like, like, I think where the psychedelic, like, 70s psychedelic movement went wrong, like the hippies is that they said, no, we don't want any of this in society. And to me, like, yeah, of course, obviously, people know.

They obviously have valid critiques of, like, the modern world. But the thing is, they didn't take the process of winning in the modern world. Like, that's the thing.

01:54:19HOST

Exactly. That's what I'm getting at. You gotta win first before you can start f. Start dunking on.

01:54:26CALLER 1

Yeah. If you don't have a alternative, there's. There's no reason to even say anything, you know?

01:54:31HOST

100% true.

01:54:33CALLER 1

Yeah. I don't know if you got anything else.

01:54:35HOST

That's a. That's a wicked secret of the universe. Yeah, bro. I think we'll close here.

I enjoyed the conversation.

01:54:40CALLER 1

Yeah, bro, that's great.

01:54:42HOST

All right, brother. Peace.

01:54:43CALLER 1

Yeah. See you.